The Key to Balancing Profitability & Sustainability

0:00If you're launching a brand today, please make it as different as possible, as weird as possible. Like that's what people want to see. They want like things that stand out, that talk to them in a way that doesn't feel like everyone else is talking to them. Hey, everyone. Shuang Esther Shan here and welcome to Shopify Masters. You're a companion for starting and scaling a business. Each year, one fifth of all food that's produced goes to waste. Danielle Close wanted to help change that. Armed with extensive marketing expertise and experience working on the founding team at Charlotte Tilbury, Danelle decided to launch My Skin Feels.

0:39It's a luxury vegan skincare line made from rescued food waste like organic orange juice, tomato skins, olive oil and breakfast oats. My Skin Feels is not only changing the sustainability world, but its products are also beloved by Vogue, LGQ and so many other publications. Danielle, welcome to the show and so great to have you here in studio. Thanks for having me. That was such a good intro. Oh my goodness. It makes me realize how much we've done. It's really cool. Yeah, and that's the path that you've led. So I think we have to start with your experience and your expertise. 15 years within. Yeah, almost.

1:1714 and a half. And yeah, I started very young in the beauty industry, which was sort of, I would say, fate that led me to it. But I ended up being on part of the founding Charlotte Tilbury team after interning with her before the brand and kind of, I knew the brand was coming, but it was like definitely on its way. And then I managed to kind of work my way through and become PR marketing and social media manager when Instagram was just starting. So it was like very much Charlotte was one of the first makeup artists on Instagram and it was actually me doing it behind the scenes, which was insane.

1:47And really that was a crazy experience to see how a blueprint of a brand can be made and like her drive and her ambition to like have an idea and like put it into action and make it happen and now where the brand is today is amazing so I really got my foot in the door and kind of it wasn't corporate beauty then but it kind of had it is now and it kind of felt like it was going that way but my passion is really in natural organic products but I remember in my experience of being in the industry for so long being in some conversations where sustainability was talked about but it wasn't actioned and so I kind of in the back of my mind had like I'm that customer I care about sustainability now nothing is being done but what's going to happen when I'm 30 and I'm buying luxury skincare?

2:25Who's going to be like talking to me? And then I ended up working in the natural organic industry because that fit more to my ethos. I worked in the spa industry. And then I went freelance for a ton of natural health, wellness, beauty, kind of lifestyle brands, like really doing a lot of different things. And one of the best jobs I ever did, which I would encourage anyone launching a business to do, after working for Charlotte Tilbury, I went to work in a shop. And I went to work in a shop of a brand that I really love, a skincare brand, to learn how to sell to customers. And it was like a big ego hit going from like the Golden Globes and like Fashion Week to working in a shop in Victoria Station in London.

3:02But I literally learned the art of selling. And that was like one of the best things I ever did. And then I always wanted to launch my own brand. But I ummed and ahed for about three years because we just don't need another beauty brand. Like there's so many out there. And I couldn't justify launching a brand for the sake of it. And then I went to a packaging show in Paris and literally saw how unsustainable the industry still was in 2020. And that was what made me be like, if no one's doing anything, I have to do something to prove that it can be done. And if I can do it, everyone else can do it too.

3:33So that's like a short version of 15 years in beauty. But yeah, a ton of crazy experience that led to this. For sure. Well, so you were at the forefront of an exciting brand being launched. Then you went to the grassroots of selling directly to a customer face-to-face. You were also the marketing expert helping so many brands while you were consulting for them. So what was it that helped you to identify this white space? Because the concept for My Skin Feels is so unique. So how did you identify that this is an opportunity for you to create something? To be honest, this is such a good question because I didn't think about it like that.

4:12I was like creating a brand because I wanted to make the most sustainable brand possible and food waste became a thing and I was like awesome why don't we just use that it wasn't actually like a real brand strategy it was like okay how can I make the most sustainable brand possible let's get these ingredients let's see how they work together and then like hey presto we're done and it's so funny that it's really become the thing which is amazing because it is so innovative but it definitely was sort of not the idea in the beginning and definitely turned into what it is today. And it's really cool that it's having this like real moment and people are really recognizing it.

4:48But to me, it was like, well, obviously, we're going to make a sustainable brand. And if food waste is the most sustainable way to do that, then why would we not put that in there? So it's very much like a secondary thought that's become like the first thought behind the brand. I think, of course, the idea is super cool. And we realized there are billions, tons of food waste each year, but it also makes your idea very complicated because you can't just directly go and source ingredients. You actually have to identify where the food waste is and how you can process that and then create beautiful skincare products from there.

5:24So how did you even begin researching that? Have a killer formulator. That is what I would say. I'm not a scientist. I have an amazing formulator that I work with who is like, we work together on the formula, but he's the guy that made it happen. And you really do need to have like someone in your team that understands products. And like I understand them from a consumer perspective. I understand them from what I love to use. But you have to have someone that understands the science. And so that was really step one, find a guy that understands the science. And my formulator used to work for a brand that I really love as well.

5:54So I know the experience he had is the experience I want in my brand. So that was like step one and then we have some really great suppliers we work with an amazing team in italy and they're the guys that help us source the food waste and they're the guys that ferment it for us and as the brand grows it's going to become more difficult because we do want to make it more in-house so there is a lot of stuff we're implementing now about how do we get food waste from i'm from brighton so how do we get food waste from brighton or sussex or our local area and it becomes more of a community-led brand as well that's sort of the second stage to where we're going.

6:26But for now, we have an amazing formulator, we have amazing suppliers, and we all work together on a team. But I would say getting a formulator is the key to everything. Because you could chuck some tomato in there and not put it with any of the other ingredients, and it wouldn't do anything. And you have to know what to put it with, and you have to know how it's going to work on your skin. And there have been some amazing effects that we didn't actually know were going to happen when we put the products together. It's doing amazing things for sensitive and exoproned skin, which really was not part of the plan.

6:52But it just sort of proves the power of food waste. Yeah. And natural products. I'm a big believer. And then also, you know, this amazing unlock of finding the formulator, the partner in production in Italy. Yeah. Any tips for founders who are, regardless of what industry they're in, they're trying to find good partners to work with. What were you looking for? I believe very much in intuition. So for me, the people that I work with and have worked with, I have a very good feeling about them. That's kind of where I start. And I know that doesn't make a lot of business sense, but it really does because it really works out.

7:27So I feel you really have to go with the gut. Like if you find someone you just really get on and the vibe is right, for me that kind of beats everything else because you work together. You can have an amazing formulator, but you might not get on and they might not care about your product. So they won't put the best work in. So they're not really that good. So it's about finding someone that you really relate with and someone that wants to go with you on the journey. That's what I would recommend. I would say for anyone starting out, everything is annoying. everything doesn't work like you'll do something and then it doesn't work and then you'll do something it doesn't work and people you rely on they end up not being reliable and you have to be accountable for your own stuff like really you can't rely on anyone I've learned that you have to be the one moving the cog and doing the things even if the most amazing people come in you still have to like manage it and eventually that won't be like that but don't rely on anyone else to make your business go forward you're you have to be the one to do that yeah I think that challenge is also great in a way because it helps you to see how much you actually believe in this concept exactly because you could give up a million times yeah and like I think a lot of people probably would give up with some of the stuff that happens but actually it's part of the fun and the challenge is that okay well that thing's happened how do we solve that it's all part of like the story of your business if it all went smoothly it wouldn't be a fun game or a fun journey so actually when the things that happen that are annoying happen you have to be like right that's happened so how do I move around that and don't make that happen the next time?

8:48Yeah, yeah. I mean, while that challenge side is happening, logistics, formulation, you also have to distill all these ideas into your branding and make it make sense for potential customers. So how did you approach branding? So branding was first for me. I'm a big brand gal. Like my whole background is branding, comps, like marketing, social. But for me, I'm obsessed with branding, always have been. And I was writing something the other day and I forgot about this thing that I did when I was a kid I used to go to every counter in like big department stores and boots and all these things and grab all the advertising stuff so anything I found really cool if it was a font if it was a face whatever it was and I've got all these folders at home from when I was like 12 all categorized into things because I used to be a makeup artist a lot of them are makeup as well but a lot of it is like this ad that I really liked or I love this product photography and I kept them all and when I thought about doing the brand, I had the name and I had like the idea kind of what I wanted to look like.

9:44But then I pulled out all this stuff from all these folders of like 20 years of things. And it's a real argomation of everything I've loved in the branding that's come out and how it is today. I also wanted it to look really different. I didn't want it to look like another natural brand. I wanted it to look interesting and different and stand out on the shelf and kind of prove that natural isn't boring and organic isn't boring. We're actually really fun. and the more fun you have with your brand, even if it's a serious message, it still captures the audience because it's fun. So yes, sustainability is really important and food waste is really important and natural products are really important, but it's packaged in a really fun way that makes it feel non-threatening and it doesn't judge you if you're not those things too.

10:21That's what I wanted.

10:27And I love how my skin feels. The brand is tied in every single aspect. Yeah. And I love how the buyer's journey online, I'm not just looking for a cleanser, but it's my skin feels clean. Yeah, exactly. How do you feel? My skin feels. Yeah. So talk to us about the way that you tied in the brand to every section of the website and blended into the buyer's journey as well. Well, it's very much making things easy, I will say. There's so many products out there. and especially for men, like men and teens find it really hard to shop skincare because it's so overwhelming and they're not taught maybe the same things we are.

11:06And this is a very genderless brand. I wanted everyone to pick it up and understand what it is and how you use it. So it really is like two products. My skin feels clean. My skin feels moisturized. That is how obvious it is. And the website flows the same way. It's very much like this is one, this is the other. And it's not a million ways to get to things. It's very simple. It's very much like here's who we are. here's the story, here's the products you need. And that's kind of it. We're not about fluff or making things more complicated than they should be. Everything should be as simple as it can be.

11:34So somebody can just press play, press go, get it, use it, know how to use it, and then replenish. That's kind of the idea. We're not about the bells and whistles. We're about products that really work. And I feel the website really shows that as well. Yeah, yeah. So once the marketing is down, the branding is down. It's also the way that you reach potential customers. How were you able to identify the audience that would actually That's an interesting one. Live with the brand. Yeah. So I feel like I've probably run my brand the opposite anyone would tell you to run a brand in 2025. For me, it's been really important to test things, but test things in real life, not test things online.

12:12I've spent the majority of the last two years, I'm a one woman baton as well. So it's just me like carting around London and the UK, but really doing every event pop-up market in places I think that people are going to understand the products. Because for me, the most important thing when you build a business, you could have all these amazing ideas and put it online and expect people to understand the message, but you need to ask them if they understand it. So I've done all these events and tried different pictures, showed them the product, see what landed, see what didn't land. And that now going into year two of the business has been invaluable because I now know online if we then go into digital advertising and like that kind of stuff.

12:45I know the exact messaging that resonates with my customers. So really, I tested it out in different places. But my audience is quite broad, which is interesting, because I was really expecting one thing. And now it's like four things, which is great, because it just showed the product works. But for me, getting on the ground has been so important. And then all those people who have brought it on the ground, it's such an easy transition to the website. And then the website just it all flows very nicely. But it's probably the opposite of what people tell you to do. They're like, put it on TikTok, put loads of money into digital, but I actually think a slow burn is a better way to build a business this year.

13:19Yeah. I mean, I think the audience might find this interesting because I actually met you in a weekend market. You were so busy. I didn't get to talk to you. I just bought it from afar, but I love the concept. I was like food waste into skincare. Very interesting. So I had to jot down the brand and look you up and I'm so glad the conversation is happening. But to your point this is advice that you don't typically hear in this day and age and it's something i've had to learn i kind of had an idea that's what i wanted to do but i i didn't know the market scene in london i didn't know which ones are good didn't know anything and actually what ended up happening last year is i met the king at a market so it really just proves the power of like getting out there and now so many people it's so interesting i saw i was on the train the other day and i was wearing this jumper and this woman was like oh my god i met you at a market and like it's amazing the reach and it's also amazing the acquisition because majority of the time people buy the product because they're investing in you and they're investing in the feeling on the skin and it's sort of going back to old school retail and then they emotionally connect with the product and then they just go on the website and they have a subscription or it just flows in a much more realistic way I think for consumers and a much better way if you're a one-man band or one woman band and you don't have the budget for that stuff just get out there you have to be confident enough to sell your product in like real life and for me that's been a really it's been the best thing I could have done for the business.

14:44But meeting the king was wild. Oh, well, you have to talk about that. Yeah, just side note. I was at a market in Battersea Power Station, which if you're in the UK, it's an amazing retail destination. And there's a great market called Creative Makers. And the founder of that was part of the Prince's Trust, which is the king's trust, basically. And he came to open the power station. He came to see the market because she was part of and then I was one of the brands that was meant to be introduced to him but he actually was so nice and spoke to everyone um but it was just really cool because launching a business you never think that that's going to get you to that and it's like a really cool it was sort of like a life box moment that for me yeah I mean for anyone who didn't believe in the power of face to face in real life events I think that's a great testament cannot express it more and I've done all of them I've done trade shows now I've done like and this year it's going even bigger we're doing bigger events and we're going outside of London and we're going to different parts of the UK to test again.

15:40Does it work up north? Does it work like what lands, what doesn't land? How much does the product value up north? Do they think it's too expensive? Do they think it's too cheap? Like it's a very different country, north and south. So it's really like you've just got to keep testing. Yeah, yeah. And not just in-person events or pop-ups, but you're also getting the word out because so many publications love to feature you and you have that secret sauce with PR and marketing. So yeah, like if new founders are wanting to pitch themselves, what would you say to them? I would say a top tip is that PR relationship came out of a 15 year relationship.

16:15And so my top tip is like, for anyone young that's listening, always make connections and network your ass off. Like from the beginning, my PR team is the PR team of Charlotte Tilbury had. And they then formed their own PR team. And I've been friends with them for 15 years. And they Ironically, they also have Charlotte Tilbury as their brand in their team. So it's very much like a full circle moment. But all the relationships I have with the press, a lot of them sort of remember me from like 15 years ago when I was really young backstage. And it kind of has become this big networking thing, which is amazing.

16:47Obviously, the product is part of it. But I would say that making sure you have strong networking and relationship skills really early on has really helped with that as well. But also, your brand has to be different. It has to stand out. If you're launching a brand today, please make it as different as possible, as weird as possible. like that's what people want to see they want like things that stand out that talk to them in a way that doesn't feel like everyone else is talking to them and also for us my whole brand is not about changing how you look it's about changing how you feel and so that's a message that I feel in 2025 is resonating a little bit differently now there's definitely a whole sub audience of beauty that are not into fillers and Botox and they're into natural but they probably wouldn't call themselves into natural but they don't have a space no one's talking to them and so a brand that encourages you to wash the day off instead of washing your makeup off, that feels like a right space for us to be in.

17:37Yeah. It's something different and new that writers and editors want to talk about. Yeah. And the food waste, the ketchup. Definitely. They're like, what? And you're like, yeah, no, it's made from the byproducts of ketchup. It doesn't smell like ketchup, I promise. But also I think a lot of it is just that, and again, this wasn't out of me really thinking about it. It was, if I'm going to launch a brand, it has to be the most sustainable possible because my conscience can't cope if there's a dolphin in the ocean eating one of my bottles like I can't deal with that so I'm making it the most sustainable possible and a lot of the journalists have picked up on that and they're like oh it's so sustainable but every it's not that hard you just have to think about it so I've really just thought about all the things that make up a brand that should be thought about and the things that we weren't able to do I have a solution for how we can do that and I have reasons for why that is there so the plastic caps it was impossible to get rid of them literally impossible but I have like boxes in my flat of caps that people have sent back to me that I'm not putting in the bin and I'm going to make into something because my conscious, I just can't do it.

18:33And so if more brands thought like that, then more press would happen. That's kind of how I feel. Like that's why a lot of press are talking about it. Yeah, for sure. The whole value ethos is so important as well. And I can tell that you care so much about every single aspect and you are a one person band that is looking after this brand. Yeah. Truly impressive because I thought it was a huge established brand. It's just me and I have another job. So it's really part time at the moment. Yeah. So yeah. Talk to us about that because how do you balance it all, make it look beautiful, professional?

19:08It's hard. I think something nobody tells you if you're like a single woman on your own doing this stuff, it's really hard because it's like no one at home or single man or single anyone just living alone at home. That's like the hardest thing because it's looking after yourself that that doesn't happen. So like everything else goes before that. So that has been a real journey of trying to not feel guilty when I'm taking some time for myself because there's always something to do. But if you can get everything right, if you can like Shopify, if you can get a clean, sleek Shopify website that just works and looks great, then that's like one thing off your plate.

19:40You don't need to worry about it. It's already done. And then if you can focus on like really good social content and not worry about the day to day stuff, like you don't have to post every day, just post when something's working or post when something's happening. That's what I'm kind of doing. It's not posting for the sake of it. It's posting because this thing is happening and we're going to talk about it that takes the pressure off and and I think in the beginning get everything get everything set up if you can get as much stuff set up as possible so you don't have to like fiddle with it later that's sort of been the biggest learning for me so everything's like ready to go somebody wants it it's there to shop and then everything else is sort of like all the packaging's done everything's done already and now it's just my job to sell it that takes quite a lot of pressure off as well I mean even to this point of being an independent business owner, you also maintained independent in terms of funding.

20:27And you did have great opportunities where there were hefty investments being offered to you, but you decided to turn it down. Yeah, that was the most stressful. That's actually the most stressful part of the thing that's happened. Yeah. So how do you actually know when to say no to certain opportunities as well? For me, that's intuition. My other job is very led with intuition, but that situation it felt very much like if they were in the business they wouldn't understand the ethos they wouldn't understand the mission and they'd be investing in a quick return and the brand is not about that the brand is like a slow burn we're here to stay we're here to make a difference you're not going to get a quick return on that it's a really like mission-led situation and it didn't feel that they were going to understand that or be on the journey with us and I think it's really important to trust your gut especially bringing someone into the business because you're married to that person.

21:17And if they don't align with your values and you are in a marriage with them, it's not going to end well. But it was really tough because they offered a lot of money and I was like in the really heavy days and I'd be like, God, I wish you just had some budget to get someone to help me. I have to be like, no, that was a good idea to turn that down. It wasn't the right person. But I think it's really hard, this part of business, when you get to this point about, okay, you need cash, but you don't want to bring someone in, but you have to bring the right person in. Where do you go? Do you go for a grant?

21:43Like there's a lot of different ways of getting funding, but it's quite hard to know what's right for you. And the only way to know is to try different things and talk to people and understand what the roots are and see what fits with you. And also the thing I've learned that I think is really important, you don't have to be an IPO company. Yes. Like that's not, you get caught up with that stuff. And actually that's not what we're about. We're definitely not about that. But you do think like, oh, maybe that's success if I do that. And you have to knock that out of your head and be like, why did you build a business?

22:13What's the purpose of the business? How do you want your life to be? And then work back from there. That's something I've really had to learn. Yeah. And I think talking to founders nowadays, especially funding is harder to come by. And right from the start, you have to set up a profitable business, have a good foundation for financials. So what's your advice there to make your finances make sense? Well, I'm dyslexic. The finances are a real struggle for me. The numbers, I find the numbers really hard. For me, just we don't spend any money on anything we don't need. So I haven't spent any money on things that people tell you to spend money on.

22:46So any digital stuff, apart from having a website and social media, we don't have any money. There's no budget that goes into that at all. Even on people, to be honest, and this is not good advice, but it's worked so far. So I'm going to say there's been a lot of things I've done that maybe someone else should have done, but I know I can do it. It's just I'm very tired. But actually, that's just part of it. And sometimes I've overpushed myself, but it means I don't have to spend money somewhere else. and it means that we then have that budget for something that really needs it. And I think it's just about making really careful considerations of what you're doing.

23:17And also when you are buying stuff up front, negotiate your butt off. Because I work with an amazing supplier of the tubes where normally the minimums are 50 ,000 and they did it for 10. So, you know, being a startup, you can say like, can you help me? And people will help you if they can. So I think that's been really a big lesson. Please ask for help if you need it. and suppliers will, they'll jiggle stuff around because they can. So that has been a really good way to save some cash. Yeah. Well, talk to us about that negotiation process, right? New founders feel like, I'm just grateful that they're even taking my call.

23:51I shouldn't even negotiate. So how do you amp yourself up to feel okay with asking for things? I think, you know, you're always the client, even if you're a small brand, you're still a client, you're still paying them, you're still paying someone's paycheck somewhere. So I feel like never take, never feel like that. Like if I'm going to somewhere and I'm going to be a client, they should treat me the same as they treat L 'Oreal. Like it's different money, but it's still a client. So I think always go in with that attitude. And then just be honest. That's kind of how I've been. Like, okay, I'm doing a startup.

24:18I don't have a lot of money. I want to work with you in the long run. And is there a way of doing that where maybe we do a smaller run now, but in the long run we stay together and we have a partnership where we grow together? That really has seemed to help a lot as well. Yeah. Yeah. And it sounds like you are also working in seasons, right? You're formulating, then there's production, and then there's a period where you're selling. How do you manage your life in terms of this business season and making sure you're prepping yourself for the next stage? It's also really tricky because we're doing new products now.

24:52So the last year, we haven't done any formulating because we're sticking with these two products, but we're now in a stage of, okay, like if you want to bring another product in, you have to start a year before really. So we're starting now and hoping to launch end of this year start up next year but that process you have to sort of run alongside everything else it's all of two businesses it's like the selling business and then the other business you just have to manage them both at the same time it's a real juggling act but just get your timelines realistic especially with beauty in the uk the testing process is really long and you've got to like make sure you don't you can't just turn something out very quickly it's a minimum of six months and so just making sure that you have your ducks in a row is really important and for me as well getting the formulations correct it doesn't mean that we're going to press play straight away and order tomorrow it just means that we've got them in the bank so when we're ready to go with the next product we've got that product ready to go and I think that's quite important as well plan ahead doesn't mean you have to go the full way but then you've got the recipe and you're ready to go when you can setting yourself up essentially basically ready for the next stage but also don't rush into new products this is the other thing with our industry there are so many products all the time churning out new things things you have to remember that you've only spoken to a certain amount of the population so like this amount of the population has got your products and loves it but there's like all these other people over here so you still got a lot of scope to talk to new people before you launch new things when it's not needed I feel like there's a lot of investor chat about new products how you're going to like grow but actually we can grow by reaching more people first and then we can launch new products get more people invest in the business before you launch new things.