The Lost Art of Sourcing Locally

0:00I cannot believe that I have a store again. I swore I would never do this again, but I couldn't stay away too long. Hi, everyone. I'm Shuang Esser Shan, and you're listening to Shopify Masters, your companion for starting and building a business. Our guest today is passionate about shopping at small businesses like no one else. Caroline Weaver has dedicated her newest business, the Local World Guide and Variety Store, to help people find stores and products locally in New York City. She's here to talk about trends in retail and how we can all support our local economies through shopping with intention.

0:36Welcome to the show, Caroline. Thank you for having me. So the Locavore Guide is both an online resource, a subscription, and a physical store. Tell us about the idea behind this whole brand and why shopping locally was so important to you. So this entire brand is all about shopping locally and shopping in person and not just the act of doing it, but all of the reasons why we should be doing it. And I come from a small business background. I used to own a really popular stationery shop called CW Pencil Enterprise, which specialized in wood-cased pencils primarily. And when I chose to close it during the pandemic, there were a lot of factors at play and a lot of reasons why I decided to close.

1:18But one thing I was thinking a lot about was how there seems to be a lot of misconceptions in the small business space around what the function of an independent retail shop is and how to actually support it. And what that looks like on a consumer side versus what that looks like from a shopkeeper's side. That, as it turns out, shopkeepers and consumers see it really differently. And so the whole point of the Local Work Guide is to provide a resource to help actual New Yorkers shop local better, to do it more often, to understand the reasons why, to dispel some of the misconceptions about ways that it might seem harder or more expensive or inaccessible.

1:58And to remind them, too, that shopping can be really, really fun. And that's what these small businesses provide us, are these really wonderful little worlds that we get to escape to in real life, in our own cities. It's awesome. And I think being in New York, being a very competitive space, also arguably one of the most expensive cities to own a retail store, I guess from your personal experience of having that stationary business, what are some learnings you can pass on for people who are thinking about starting local businesses within their own community? There are definitely a few things. I think the first thing is that you really need to know the community that you're serving.

2:35You can't just choose a pretty storefront in a nice neighborhood because it's just there. You have to understand who your neighbors are and what they want and what they need and how to interact with them. And I think the biggest thing, though, when you're opening a small business is you just have to trust your gut. You have to have a point of view and you have to trust it. And there's a place for any small business that exists just because the owner had the conviction to make it happen. And I say often that everybody has great ideas, but there's a big difference between somebody who has a great idea and somebody who actually executes that idea.

3:13And so I think if you go so far to execute your good idea by opening a shop, you're halfway there already. I do kind of subscribe to the Field of Dreams idea of if you build it, they will come. And if you build a really good shop, people will show up and people can tell when it's made from the heart, when it's not trying to capitalize on a trend. You just have to trust your gut and have a point of view. It's really that easy. Having a point of view, offering an experience. And I think after COVID, there has been a rebirth, a resurgence of building up retail stores again. has there been any trends you're seeing that makes you feel hopeful about independent shops opening up again oh yeah there are so many trends that i'm seeing that make me feel very hopeful first of all at least in new york city there since well since the pandemic there have been significantly more bookstores opening than there are bookstores closing which i think is so so cool that that's that's the case there are bookstores opening in new york city at least a couple a year and it's been trending that way for a while now.

4:19And in this past year in particular, there have been so many vintage stores opening. There's this big like Gen Z driven wave of vintage and thrift stores that are just showing up everywhere. We hear about a new vintage store opening in New York almost every week. It's incredible. And it's a market that I don't fully understand. My skeptical retail brain is like, there's no way that there's a big enough market for all of these. And of course it poses lots of other questions about the consumption of fast fashion and the turnover of all of it. But yeah, when it comes to these slightly more specialized shop categories, we're seeing more of them opening than we are seeing shops closing.

5:00And there's also this observation that the newer generation of Gen Zs, they actually love shopping in person versus online. How has that impacted local economies? There have been recent studies that show that Gen Z, more than any other living generation. They want to be shopping in person, which I think is really wonderful. And what I think it's going to do in the next couple of years is just kind of recalibrate the types of shops that are in cities because the majority of the demographic of people shopping in them are an entirely new younger generation. And so it makes me wonder if we are going to see just more shops like these vintage shops that are opening or these, there are a lot of like really inspired newer grocery stores that are opening.

5:42And if there's going to be a little bit of a turnover when it comes to these older kind of like legacy old school shops closing and these newer ones coming in. And I think that that can be really exciting. I don't think that that's always a bad thing. And I think you are such a true advocate for supporting independent shops, revitalizing local economies where you created this project and this resource, and then it's grown into a subscription business. So talk to us a little bit about the evolution of the Locovore guide. Originally, I just wanted an easier way to find shops. In New York City, there's tens of thousands of shops.

6:19And I was personally, because I very much live this lifestyle of trying to buy everything locally, I was tired of having to search through like the first eight pages of a Google search to find something that was what I was looking for, because it's just so buried because of the way that SEO works and because of all the sponsored posts and ads. And so I just wanted to create a resource to help people find shops more easily because a lot of people like the idea of doing it, but they don't want to do the work. And so I thought if I can remove a step, maybe people will be more likely to subscribe to this lifestyle, especially if it's on a website that's really like colorful and fun and well-designed.

6:53And so I originally, it was supposed to just be a physical guidebook because I mean, I come from stationary. I come from an analog world. And so that's what I wanted to do. And then realized very quickly once I started collecting the data that I was really in over my head and that there was so much to work with that there was no choice but to put it in a really well-organized online database. And I think currently our database has over 14 ,000 shops and I'm not done cataloging the city yet. I estimate that by the time I'm done, there'll be about 17 ,000. And that's just way more than I could ever have in a physical guidebook.

7:27And it's exciting because you're also going on these local adventures to also help out with shoppers in their journey. How did the subscription piece come into play? Well, with an information resource, I needed some way to try to monetize it. And we only launched about a year ago officially. And so it's very much something we're trying to work through. But a lot of the additional resources that we provide are our paid features in our attempt to monetize this resource. The directory itself, it's really important to me that it not only be free and accessible to everybody, but that you don't even have to use an email address to use it.

8:03You can just go on the site and dive right in. There's no work involved at all. But some of the additional content, like we have a shopping hotline phone number that members have access to that they can text or call us anytime if they need something really specific. And me or one of my colleagues will reply and tell them where they should try to look for it. And we have great editorial content, most of which is free, but occasionally not. We also have a weekly newsletter where we get pretty granular when it comes to like news around town that's shop related and just things that we hear about, trends that we notice, a little bit of gossip sometimes.

8:36We offer a discount in our store. So we're trying to find a way to monetize this in a way that doesn't subscribe to all of the things that we are ethically against. It's really difficult to build a business, whether it be an information resource or a shop or any sort of business that is values and ethics space, because like we can't do advertising because the types of businesses who can afford to do advertising, substantial advertising on a website are not small businesses. They're what we're encouraging people to avoid. And so it's, it's a complicated thing and I, and I've not figured it out.

9:11I'm still navigating it. And I, I very much am of the opinion too, that the whole subscription thing is a little oversaturated. People are tired of having to pay$5 a month for everything. I think the approach you take is making it accessible so that the guide anyone can access, and then you are providing this additional value if they choose to subscribe. And then you're also looking into scaling the brand through the physical store. So talk to us about your re-entrance into retail as well. I cannot believe that I have a store again. I swore I would never do this again, but I couldn't stay away too long.

9:45I do think that most people who have shops and have done e-com and physical stores or both can attest to the fact that what a physical store exists as, as much as it does a store, is it's marketing. And for us, especially, I wanted to create a space that was friendly and engaging and really fun to shop at where people could come in and visualize this lifestyle that I'm trying to sell them. And it's a much easier sell when you can see it and you can experience it and it's tangible and you can talk to a real person. And I'm selling a lifestyle of shopping, not only shopping local, but doing it in person and going outside and engaging with your neighbors and asking for an expert opinion.

10:25And so to be able to actually demonstrate that, I think is really important. And for any shop that I think these days, most people are smart and they do e-com first. And then once they feel stable and they've made some money, they go and they open a physical store. And I think that most shopkeepers that I know have experienced that once they open that physical store, that's when it takes off because people are able to visualize it. And it's funny to me that we live such online lives, but there are all these little pieces of evidence that indicate that these in-person moments, these in-person experiences are still so, so vital to our existence.

11:02Totally. And I think you're carving your own path in entrepreneurship, which is so interesting. And you're not taking that traditional like e-com store first approach, which I think is important to highlight. So within your store, you also have your own merch for the brand, as well as a curation of your favorite things, I would say around the city. So yeah, tell us about like the things that you source and how you go about like building those relationships. The Locovar Variety Store, which is the name of my shop, it's basically a general store that sells mostly products made within a hundred miles of New York City by entirely independently owned brands.

11:43We don't sell any big brands, even if they are made locally. And we do sell some of our own products. And we've even brought back a pencil that I used to, that I designed that I used to have made for my old shop. It's made in Jersey city. It's a fun fact. America's oldest pencil company is in Jersey city, New Jersey. They've been around since 1889. But the shop is a really fun mix of really, really old businesses like that. We also have pickles that you can get out of a barrel. You can come in and use tongs and fish out a single pickle from the oldest pickle house in New York City in Massifath, Queens.

12:13And you can shop home goods and gifts and pantry items and toiletries and stationery books, all of these things which are made by other small businesses. And a lot of them are people that I already knew or people that I've encountered along the way. A lot of these businesses I found because I peeked through a factory door when I was out documenting that neighborhood. And it's been fun to see how many people come in and see something they recognize and cannot believe that it is actually made here. A good example is Wiffle Ball, like the yellow plastic baseball bats with the balls with the holes in them.

12:50Those are made in Connecticut by a family-owned business, and that's all they make is a Wiffle Ball. That's so fascinating. Yeah, I'm trying to prove this point that it's around us, whether we realize it or not. All of this stuff is about us. And when you choose to seek it out, there are a lot of really wonderful things to discover. I think shopping locally also extends to entrepreneurs. So how can they think about sourcing locally for their products or materials? Yeah, the way that we source products now, it's so complicated because there's so many channels. It used to be that you just traveled and found things or you went to trade shows or you asked around like that was those were your only options.

13:28And now we have websites like fair, we have all these research forums. We have trade shows that are entirely virtual now. Like it's so different. And, um, I don't know, especially for shops that exist kind of like in the lifestyle space, I noticed a lot of them sell the same stuff that you, that they're seeing at the same trade shows or that they're seeing as the same, like suggested products on fair. Um, and I don't know, I think when sourcing them, the, the best thing to do is to look at what your store is trying to accomplish and split it up, not by just kind of willy nilly looking for stuff that is lovely and that will fit into the vibe, but by going through and trying to decide like, what are all the product categories you're trying to hit?

14:09And then do that research in reverse and look for whatever that particular item is based on whatever your parameters are. If you're buying local goods, if you have an aesthetic in mind, if you have a country of manufacture or a price range or whatever, instead of just filling your store with stuff that might not make sense with the overall vision, if that makes sense. But on a whole, one thing that I think that we've lost track of a little bit is the idea of just asking people for help, that we don't have to be experts in everything, that you can ask somebody who knows more than you do and trust that they're going to give you a good answer.

14:49And I see that in the way that people shop, that they research like what the best, I don't know, like the best Bluetooth speaker is beforehand and maybe buy it online. Or they go to a store and they already think they know what they want because they've done their own online research. But in reality, especially if you're shopping at a small business that's specialized, that shop owner, that person working in the shop is going to know more than you. Like you should just save your time and just ask them for advice. They'll have good advice. And I think the same goes for sourcing for your shop. And I lean on the people in my network all the time when I'm looking for something like, I don't know, linen napkins.

15:25And I'm not sure where to find them. And I know somebody who has amazing taste. And I'll ask them like, well, what are some linen napkin brands that you've heard of that might be local? And then we'll just go from there. Or people in the food world. That's not my area of expertise. I've leaned on a lot of people for help with that. And so, yeah, ask your friends. Ask your friends to ask their friends. You know somebody who knows somebody who has a great shop in another part of the country where you're not their competition. like they'll help you. Yeah, I think there's a lot of social anxiety around the way that we interact with each other in the world of business and in life.

15:57And yeah, just ask for help. Having that mind shift of looking locally and also like actually leaning on people that you know, I think it's really good practical advice to think about sourcing locally for like all the small businesses you've been able to learn about, has there been something that has surprised you in the process? In New York City, especially, I mean, I live in Manhattan. Most of my friends live in Brooklyn in the same neighborhoods. I live in a pretty insular world here. And even though I do travel to other boroughs, I'm very adventurous. I love going on a little day trip. Going to a lot of these neighborhoods that are further out in the outer boroughs that I'd not seen before really reminded me of the place of commerce in a community that a lot of these New York City neighborhoods that I had never seen before do have thriving main streets and they're not full of chain stores.

16:54And so the people in that community really rely on and shop at those stores on their main streets because it's the most convenient because the guy who works at the fish shop is probably like the third generation and they knew his dad, or there's, there, there are these thriving little hubs of retail that are really unexpected in a lot of neighborhoods that you might not expect to find. And, and I feel naive for not knowing that. And it was really, it was really happy to find really good examples of functioning main streets in New York city. And the way that that functions differently to like, say like you're in, you're in the West village.

17:30In the West village, nobody's opening a shop there because it fulfills a need for the most part. You're opening a shop there because it's a high traffic area where people have money and you want to have a shop. And so these neighborhoods function so differently. And I think that's been like the most surprising thing to see just how differently they function and how some neighborhoods do it better than others and how some neighborhoods, I mean, are really successful in filling their storefronts and selling goods that are just necessary. I mean, And that's originally what retail was. You opened a shop because your local butcher retired and you need a butcher shop in your neighborhood.

18:04Or because there's a new trend and nobody's selling that thing. You open a shop and you sell it. It's, yeah, really is what retail was intended for. Big cities are filled with neighborhoods and their local stores really support those economies. Very excited to chat more about the creative side of the Local Roar Guide. real quick i just wanted to thank you for tuning into the show make sure to subscribe to shopify masters wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss an episode we also have a giant backlog of episodes with some of the most interesting business owners on shopify if you ever want to go back and listen thank you also another thing i think it's beautiful about the start of the Locovores guide is because this is a creative format that has allowed you to be exploring the city, have a sense of expression as well.

19:05And this is something that's grown because you were cataloging the city. Talk to us through that creative side, that initial days of just simply cataloging and creating. Thank you for recognizing that it really is a creative endeavor because I'm collecting information, but it's a humongous city. It's been a really fun journey to try to figure out how to tackle it. And I've had to be flexible and organized. And I started thinking that I was just going to go to these neighborhoods, find the little pockets where there's lots of retail and just take it from there. But it turned out to be a lot more than that.

19:46I never could have anticipated that I wouldn't even be done and I'd already be at 14 ,000 shops. and having to go out and catalog these neighborhoods while also thinking about how are other people going to interact with it? They're not here with me and I want them to come here. And so how do we design a website that makes it easy for them to find these places and to feel inspired to come to them while not misrepresenting the businesses that we are including? And so it's important to me that everything is unbiased and that we kind of leave it open for people to explore. And for me as the explorer, I get to go into these neighborhoods that I've never been to.

20:22I don't even do that much research. I kind of just leave it up to chance. And I have a rubric for the information that I gather. And I will sit down and look at a map ahead of time to gauge what the layout of the neighborhood is. And I've gotten really used to city planning patterns. And so I can tell where some areas are going to be residential and some are going to have lots of shops. And then I just have to go out with my little explorer hat on and be open to going down a street. I didn't think I needed to go down because it looks like there's houses, but there's something else that looks different.

20:52And that might be a shop and it often is. Or I have to be creative about how I find information. I spend a lot of time at diner counters during lunchtime. Every neighborhood has a good diner and that's a reliable place to have lunch. And so I end up asking a lot of questions from neighbors I meet at a diner counter. And yeah, I think a lot about Harriet the Spy. Do you know the book, Harriet the Spy, I feel often like I'm Harriet the Spy, like roaming around New York City, just making observations and acting on what I'm noticing and hoping for an interesting result. And so while it is a very repetitive process of data collection, a lot of the more interesting things that I've found and that I've trusted my gut on and that I've, all these little side quests I've chased are the things in the end that create good content for social media, good editorial stuff for our website.

21:44And just a good reminder that if you're curious and creative and have an open mind, there are still so many things in New York City that are like legitimate hidden gems. And I think highlighting this aspect of creativity is so important because the genesis of your business is so unique. And I think it's going to be valuable for our listeners to think about approaching ideas for business in a different way. Nowadays, how much do you spend or dedicate your time towards content creation and storytelling in the everyday operations? Content creation and storytelling is a pretty heavy focus for me right now, now that I've done the bulk of the cataloging in the city and I have a really organized and great team who maintain the database and keep everything up to date.

22:32And so I get to focus on the really fun stuff and And sharing information about the products that we sell and sharing information about the places that I found too is so important in driving this narrative and selling this lifestyle that we're not just telling you how to find the shops. We're also giving you a little hint as to why you should be shopping at them. And I think that we've got to be more creative too and not just be posting like features on shops. We just do a feature that we call Ask a Shopkeeper, where one of our freelance writers will go and talk to a shopkeeper that they really like to see where they like to shop because shopkeepers do have the best recommendations because they're so in tune with that world.

23:12And we try to think of like out of the box ways to create content that's about shopping. That's not just us telling people where to shop because I think there's too much, especially in media, especially in New York City about highlighting shops that are deemed like the best or the coolest or, and I say all this with air quotes because I just think that that's not a productive way to label things, especially when there's such a vastness of stuff to choose from. Or like there's all this space in media for like these mom and pop shops, these like legacy shops that are quaint and charming and have a history, but like it's all the shops in between that I'm the most interested in.

23:49The ones that are just serving a neighborhood and doing something weird and cool and interesting and doing it quietly, they're not getting pressed because they're just doing their jobs well and they just care about being really good at that one thing that they do. And so those are the shops I'm most interested in that we try to highlight the most. But I also feel like for this platform in particular, what I'm trying to do is cultivate a voice that is trustworthy and friendly and not judgmental about around all of this stuff too because in the retail world right now there really isn't anybody speaking on behalf of retailers and speaking about this whole idea of shopping local and shopping small that that's that's qualified really because anybody with an economics background unless you've owned a small business you don't know what it's actually like it's so different to experience it than to just research it and talk about it.

24:38And so all this on the ground research, all of this content that we're creating just by talking to people and following leads, all of that is so important because there's a human element to it. And I don't think that there's a voice in small business retail right now who's tapped into that. I think it's also very important, especially in nowadays where there's so much seasonality with business, with Black Friday or the holiday season, where it gets even tougher for local businesses to compete against some of the giants. So what's your advice there for either small business owners or shoppers to still embrace local during those periods?

25:20Yeah, especially during holiday season and traditional sale periods, it is such a complicated thing because small businesses simply cannot do the same things that big businesses are doing. And consumers don't understand why. They want to know why they're not getting free shipping everywhere. They want to know why a small business isn't doing a Black Friday sale. And I'm always paying attention during this time of year to the email newsletters I'm getting because a lot of small businesses have gotten really good about not defending themselves, but sending these emails that really eloquently explain why they don't do it.

25:54And my job and what I do, and we did this last year and we'll do it again this year, is to be really loud about educating people on the why of all of it because most consumers don't understand that these big stores, they're building those margins into their original prices of their products in order to be able to give you 50 % off. You're ending up paying what you should have been paying in the first place for a product that that's cheaper than they've made you think it is. And so I think it's so frustrating to be a small business during holiday season because so much of people's conceptions of what products should be sold as and how they should be sold during holiday season is so messed up by corporate marketing and by all of these manipulative tactics that these big businesses use to make you think that you're getting something when in reality you're not.