The Marketing Mistake Most Brands are Making Today (+ How to Fix It)

0:00I like to say that Flamingo Estate is a hospitality brand. Details are the kind of thing when they're right, you don't notice them. When they are wrong, this is the thing that you will notice.

0:10Richard Christensen and Aaron Harvey launched Flamingo Estate as a lifeline for their community. What started as a produce box has exploded into an eight-figure lifestyle sensation, celebrated for luscious soaps, candles, and ritual-driven living. I don't think we ever had the notion that it would get to where it is now. We spend a lot of time on this. Oh, I'm going to get emotional. From viral citywide campaigns with Shopify Shop app to building a cult following among tastemakers, this brand keeps rewriting what it means to truly live well. Curiosity, passion, not being afraid to work hard will get you everywhere.

0:44Today, co-founder and creative director Aaron Harvey joined Shopify Masters to reveal the journey behind the viral moments and how bold creativity made Flamingo Estate unforgettable. Harvey, wow, am I excited to have you here today. It's such a pleasure. Thank you. Flamingo Estate lives in this like very mythical space for a lot of us. It's like, is it a place? Is it a brand? Is it an atelier? Is it a figment of our collective fantasies? And then in many ways, the most mysterious thing about the brand is you. Oh God. Okay. Because it's like Richard is the face of it, but you're the other half behind the scenes.

1:20The visibility thing is like part of his nature. You know what I mean? I think it's like his happiest place. He'll call me sometimes and be like, oh, I was at like the coffee shop and someone came up to me and they were like, are you Richard from Flamingo Estate? And I know he's going to have a great day. You know, I am the opposite. This is the kind of thing that is my nightmare. There's a beauty to a bit of mystery, you know, and so sometimes the ambiguity around all of this kind of stuff to me is maybe one of the pluses, you know, is it a house? Is it a brand? Is it one of these things? There's questions that are created in people's minds, which to me is like a lure into the universe.

1:53I don't have a deep need, you know, to explain everything. I feel like the work is good. The product is nice. The packaging is cute. You know, we make like an honest product. Honestly, we're nice people. And that's maybe enough. The birth of Flamingo Estate is inextricably linked to the pandemic. What set the whole thing in motion? Richard and I had just started dating. The pandemic hit and there was this kind of like inflection moment. I think I was maybe, hey, I'll see you when this thing is over. You know what I mean? There's like, we're going to be quarantined for two weeks. Yeah, yeah. no, we met in January.

2:27Work for him really slowed down. He runs an agency. Productions stopped in Los Angeles. They kind of stopped globally. There was a woman who was a farmer who was a friend of someone that worked at the house and she was going to lose her business. They had shut down restaurants for two weeks. And in farming produce, that kind of stuff, margins are super small. And so two weeks of no business could really send someone into like financial ruin. Richard grew up on a farm. His parents are farmers. He lost his family farm when he was in high school. And this was something that really resonated with him, you know, and he felt like I have an opportunity to do something.

2:58He and I both obviously know how to make something cute and sell things via social media, I guess. And so he was like, bring your stuff. We'll make some cute boxes. I have a bunch of friends who exist online in a really visible way. And I was like, you know, we can send some boxes. This can be something that we do to kind of like help at this time. And things kind of started from there. That first weekend, she thought maybe we could sell 25 of these produce boxes. You know, we sold 100. And then the week after, it was 200 and 300. You know, and then we started like hiring delivery drivers and making these deliveries across Los Angeles.

3:28And it like really started super organically from really more him than me trying to help someone that was part of our community. We live at this house. It's seven acres in the middle of suburbia. And we grow, you know, herbs and vegetables and flowers and stuff like that. And so I think we were in a place where we were really exploring, you know, nature in a way that we had not had maybe the time or the pause to do earlier. Changed our lives. You were not the only people on the internet selling farmer's market boxes at the time. It became kind of a rallying cry for a lot of restaurants. Why do you think yours broke through in such a crazy way?

4:03There was an earnestness and a passion maybe that people could see and feel. It was something that we were experiencing for the first time, this like deep dive into the land, into Mother Nature. They say sometimes, I guess, when you're starting a business, the best way to do it is like to build in public, you know? And we were really doing that. Like the Instagram captions were super long and there were these stories about, you know. Very personal. Super personal. Always signed with his name at the end. Again, this is like, you know, someone would leave a comment on Instagram and Richard would reply to it with his cell phone number.

4:38And it's like, hey, you know, give me a call right now. And I'm like, dude, you can't. You can't do that. Can't do that anymore. He still does it. It's wild to me. Every Saturday, Richard gets a list of our top 50 customers for the week and he will send a text message to each and every one of them. And then he'll engage in conversation. Oh, you know, hey, oh, what did you buy the gifts for? Oh, my God. It's, you know, your daughter's christening. That's amazing. this is a level of participation, you know what I mean? That people feel it's his love language, you know? And it's kind of found its way to every facet of our business.

5:10I think from a business perspective, that's a big question on everyone's minds. It's like, how do you build community? How do you build community? How do you build community? It's like, hopefully you come by it. You have to build community. Yeah, and you come by it really honestly. We get like a lot of TikTok commentator, you know, it's like, oh, you know, the brand strategy that made Flamingo a steering wheel. And they talk a lot about creating community or authenticity, but through a lens of strategy. It doesn't work that way. It has to be honest and it has to be natural. The way that we have found ourselves into the kitchens and pantries of these kind of people is through friends.

5:43Do you guys have a different relationship with the celebrity component of Flamingo Estate? For sure. For sure. You know, he grew up on a farm in the outback of Australia and then came to New York with really like bright eyes, you know, of the big city and making his name and, you know, like fashion and entertainment. I grew up here in Los Angeles. Yeah, you're an LA kid. And so my association towards it is really different. I also spent a lot of my early career working on celebrity backed brands. And most of the time, they are decisions that happen in a boardroom where someone is like, oh, you know, we have an opportunity to tap this person and then we're going to go find these random products and then we're going to make a contract.

6:26And it's a construction. Celebrity adjacency can give you visibility. But if there is not something there, then what's the point? And so we have had a lot of conversation about this. I think he's really aware of the power of something like that just to spread a message, right? The size of the platform is something that's important. On the flip side of it, I have a need to maintain the ties to the things that made this business special in the beginning, which is so much the community. Why are we making these things? We're trying to make nice things for nice people. And so we've been able to grow in a way that respects maybe both of our perspectives on this stuff.

7:06So Pamela Anderson makes pickles for us. This is an amazing opportunity. We've also raised, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars for wildlife charities. This is something that's super important to her and makes me feel like the use of that platform is for good rather than just like proliferation of our business. You know, there has to be like more to it than that. The vision that we've all just been like consuming voraciously for all these years is one of slow living, of making your own food, of being out in nature. And then, you know, concurrently, what might have started as sort of a quaint feeling act of service really has grown into a really serious brand.

7:50Yeah, no, we're doing numbers. Like it's crushing for sure. And the scale of it sometimes is daunting to me. I don't think we ever had the notion that it would get to where it is now. But momentum has pulled us in that direction for sure. He and I are uniquely aligned in that we deeply love to work. We spend a lot of time on this. Oh, I'm going to get emotional. I think I'm like, I'm jet lagged and I'm... Oh, you're getting me seven months pregnant, you know? Yeah, no, no. I mean, me too, clearly. No, we work really, really hard on it. I think the way that we have been able to experience the brand is not the same way that customers do, right?

8:33Like during that first year, for sure, we were definitely like cooking at home and making the things from the box and doing the rituals. We were really living that stuff and we were communicating, I think, the way that it impacted our lives personally. It's a super revelatory, very transformative. I think the deeper that we got into it, we continue to experience that joy or that connection through the work. You know, I like to say that Flamingo State is a hospitality brand. And what I mean by that is just that it is the tools for you to show up and host not only the people that come into your home, but also yourself, right?

9:12Sometimes the self-care thing gets lost in people's minds. And so I like to think about hospitality as a lens. When someone comes over, you want to show them a nice time. We should also be doing the same thing for ourselves. Light the candle, cook the meal, use the thing. This wasn't something I think that I was intimately connected with before. I would buy candles and I love fragrance and that kind of stuff, but it's this thing that sat on a table. Now we're burning, you know what I mean? 10 or 15 of them at the same time. And like, that's what it's about. It's the experience. The things are there for us to use and to love and to create moments.

9:44And those scents then get connected to memory. And so when you smell a tomato candle, it's like, oh, that was the night that, you know, so-and-so came over and we had this, you know, there's something to it. You've had so many massive successes, but the tomato line, but the tomato candle in particular, has like risen to the level of celebrity. What is the lightning that you were capturing in that bottle? The opacity of things. Sometimes the mystery of things can be this lore. When you see a tomato candle, I think people maybe initially have this preconception that it's going to smell like ketchup or something.

10:12You know what I mean? I don't know what the thing that maybe you have in your mind versus what it would be in real life. There is disconnect between those two things that makes you ask a question. People like to find out the answers to questions. And so maybe that's really all it is. It's a weird name. It's obviously an amazing scent, right? But we sell things on the Internet. So you can't smell the candle. and that storytelling around, yeah, you know, summers in Italy and tomatoes and the leaves and crushing them in your hands. And we tried to paint a picture for people what this thing was that they maybe didn't have an immediate recognition for.

10:47If I tell you something smells like jasmine, you know what jasmine smells like. It is what it is. But tomato was something that was, it was interesting. It was unique and it's worked well for us so far. And it is truly like so transportive, you know, I have the candles, I have the room spray. and it's like, I feel like it does exactly what you're intending. Like I spray the room spray and I'm like, oh, I'm on the Amalfi Coast. Yeah, that means a lot. Here I am for a moment. That means a lot. And it's what we do, you know? Like we're burning the candles because sometimes like that's our only opportunity to get out of the four walls of our living room.

11:20And so having those moments, whether they're, yeah, at the sink, you're washing dishes, but now we're washing dishes in Italy. This is not so bad. In those early days, the farmer's market boxes take off. You say you're like hiring delivery drivers. Is there a moment where the two of you look at each other and you're like, oh, like this is the business? Yesterday? No. I don't know that there was a moment where we were like, oh, there's something here. I think that we thought that there was something there from that first week. I think we're surprised by it constantly. I think there's something so powerful and beautiful, too, about being in a partnership where you can constantly be holding up mirrors to each other.

11:58Is it, though? No. it's a level of intimacy that is, that's rare. You know, I think about it a lot because, you know, you have a tough day at work or you have specific feelings about how something should be. And maybe it's not that way. You get to go home and tell the story from your perspective and leave it. But the partner that you're telling the story to, they only have your side. Right. And so when we have conversations, you know, he'll say, you know, this happened, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, but, you know, I was in the room too. And on the flip side of it, you know, so the mirror is quite clear.

12:37It's been washed. You know what I mean? Like Windex has been used and it is like crystal clear. And that is, it can be confronting, you know, in a way that is challenging for sure. But if you're willing to quiet your ego, it can be such a powerful vehicle for growth, your personal growth. But your personal growth is also the business's growth. Yes. These things are tied in a way that I've never experienced before. It makes the stakes of things feel quite high at all times. Everything's in one pot. It's all in one pot. But how I show up every day is not only a reflection on myself, it's also a reflection on our business.

13:19I'm a leader and how I show up impacts people. How he shows up impacts people. How I show up impacts the way that people perceive him. And also how you show up for each other in front of them. It's a lot of interconnected pieces and that can be complex. From a division of labor standpoint between the two of you, Richard is the public-facing half of the brand. You do show up in a video every now and again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm not like, I don't want to make it seem like I'm like reclusive or something. Yeah, yeah. It's fun. It's like a little Easter egg. He's kind of more like, what, like the 30 ,000-foot view.

13:56Yeah. And you're in the details. Yeah, I think he is, and it can, you know, switch from time to time, too. I think he has a deep love of creative work. How that shows up for him, I think a lot of times is writing. And so like long form captions and you know what I mean? This kind of stuff is, he's a writer, we've done books, this kind of stuff. Yeah, exactly. Our Friday letters are pages and pages of prose, you know, it's like long form text. Virging on poetry. Yeah, no, no, no. He's a poet. He feels things deeply and he communicates through the written word. He's a very talented art director.

14:28and so he enjoys the process of like working on set with photographers and this kind of thing. I have similar talents. I'm also a very good writer. I also enjoy the process of working on set and art direction and this kind of stuff. My way is much more detail focused. You know, I love preparation. I need to explore the depths of the internet before I'm ready to make the deck and then the deck is 200 pages that gets called down to like 40 really sharp ones and each image just very important to me. And these are the reasons why he's much more like a vibe person. You know, it's like he is the engine that drives this thing for sure.

15:05My piece of the puzzle is much more executional. Can you think as the details guy of like a couple of those small details that ended up being really transformative for the brand? Yeah. I mean, packaging in general, I think has always been a big piece of our brand story. It's the thing that people talk about a lot aside from the products like, oh, you know, it's such a nice gift or boxes are so amazing. Those vegetable boxes were maybe that kind of like first exercise in that we had these like giant illustrations and there was like text and, you know, this message on the inside. You know, these were the things that really helped people to understand what we were doing, right?

15:43It's like opportunity for us to communicate directly to someone in their home, you know, is like what's on the inside flap of that box. And the things that we were saying were true. You know, it was really the way that we felt. And it was really what we were trying to get people to understand. You know what I mean? It was a message that we were trying to amplify. Details for me also are, I guess, the place where we can differentiate. I think that, you know, we make something and then someone else makes something that looks pretty similar. I know that ours has, you know, two different plates of embossing and that we're, you know, like there are details to what we're doing that people might not clock individually, but like in a tactile way, they feel.

16:21I like to check whether or not things line up. So on a box, for example, the end of the ingredients panel should also match the same line as the descriptor on the front should also match the ifra on the back. There are these things about like, for me, when I turn something around, if text is in the same place, it makes it easier for me as a viewer to like read that these things are happening. And And so I'm proud of my ability to make things look finished. You know, they look complete. And those are the detail pieces of the puzzle. And so I don't know that everyone always recognizes the details, but I think that they can feel the level of thought that went into what we're doing.

16:59And that to me is the thing that makes us different than other people. Right. Like they might not be consciously clocking the alignment of the text, but they're still sort of absorbing the experience. Yeah, there's an intention, right? When you look at this thing, you understand that a lot of time was put into this situation. I think that details are the kind of thing when they're right, you don't notice them. When they are wrong or they are missing, you know what I mean? This is the thing that you will notice, right? Is that like, oh, I had an amazing meal at this like fab restaurant that was super well decorated.

17:28But there was like a lipstick stain on my wine glass. You know what I mean? This is a detail. It's a very, very small piece of the puzzle, but it can ruin everything, you know? You and Richard both come from a marketing and advertising background. I hate marketing. Don't say that. A creative background? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There are a lot of businesses that are marketing driven, right? Which is amazing. You see an opportunity strategically. You position yourself at a certain place in the market. You know what I mean? You like build creative around that positioning, right? This is a way to go forward.

17:59And it's one that can be super, super successful. It's just not what we're doing. You know, like I like to think of Flamingo State. We run maybe more similar to the way that like a fashion brand does, which is that like creative leads. we make what we want to make and we try to make it super beautiful. You know what I mean? And the driver is the creativity. It's the story. It's the inspiration. That's what we're doing. At the same time, like as the company scales and it's not just you and Richard, you have more than like a hundred people now, right? I mean, it depends on the time of the year, but yeah, for sure.

18:32Are there things that you have found, even if you're sort of reticent to do so that over time you've had to sort of codify or operationalize in particular ways so that things can keep functioning? Yeah, I think one of the best qualities that he has, but also one of the most challenging for me, he's a very willful person. He will get there, you know, like he wants it badly, whatever it is, he wants it. And he will do, you know what I mean? Like what needs to be done, he will stay up late, he will do the thing, he will make sure that it happens. And so I think he advocates for things in our business that we think are important.

19:04and he will do so to anyone who will listen and even to people who will not. Things like the vegetable box, for example, it's the genesis story, I guess, of what we're doing. But especially in the beginning, it was not a profitable endeavor. We probably could have just given everyone who ordered one$25 and called it a day. They were like negative margin. It was like something that we really, really wanted to do, did it. As the business started to grow, people were like, oh, you got to cut this thing. And we're like, no, no, no, like we can make it, you know, at least break even. And so we did that.

19:33And then they were like, still, this is like too much time, you know, for you to be spending on this thing. The boxes. The boxes. People need to taste real food. They need to understand that it comes from a person. Someone grew this with their hands. Our perspective is that Mother Nature is the last great luxury house and we are purveyors of her finest goods. Some of those goods are vegetables. And so this is an important part of our story. So we operationalize, but we operationalize without losing the thing, you know. So the boxes for us now have become a really big piece of our puzzle. We've brought in chefs who are curating every month.

20:04They're going to the market. You know what I mean? We're including recipes. So we've really like changed the program to be something that now can be profitable. And we're selling out every week. And it wasn't about ditching the thing or making it easier. It has to stay the way that it is, but we have to shave off some corners. You know what I mean? Polish it a bit, do it in a way that's smarter and more efficient. But this doesn't mean that it needs to go away. We don't have a 3PL. We pick and pack our own orders in a warehouse. You know what I mean? Like we have tens of thousands square feet of warehouse space and there are employees that are handwriting notes and tying ribbons.

20:41But this is what we do. This is our business. It allows you to have that extra level of quality control. Yeah. There are a lot of people who make very nice things. If we are not doing it differently, then there's kind of no purpose for us to be here. And I think that what we are doing is very different. But maintaining that richness of experience is part of why this thing works. So we have to figure out, you know what I mean, creative ways to make those things continue to happen. You're talking about a very steadfast commitment to sticking to your guns. Yeah. You also kind of have had this like stratospheric rise.

21:13And when that happens, there's invariably a lot of other voices that come into the fold. Have there ever been any moments where you realized that you had started being pulled away from something that was really important to you and had to reorient? Yeah. I think this happens a lot for sure, especially as businesses grow and you need capital and you start having conversations about investment and there's boards and this kind of stuff. People have thoughts, you know, you get advice from people who they just don't know your business that well. You know, they understand from like a top level, you know, oh, you guys make candles and hand soap and, you know, sell these vegetables.

21:46OK, cool. Like I get what you're doing. And then they'll give you some analogy, some business that they feel like exists in the same sphere. And they're like, oh, well, you know, they did it this way. And like, you guys should, you know, early in our trajectory, we had people, they were like, you guys, you should be a supplement business. I'm like, what do you mean? And they're like, well, you know, vegetables, you know, this is a huge business. You guys got to do the, you put a powder in a drink and then that's going to be a ritual. And this is self-care. I was like, we got to stop talking to these people.

22:11This is like absolutely not what we're doing. You know, that's a great business. It's just not the one that we, it's not the one that we want to make. We had a lot of conversations in the beginning about need states, you know. Oh, you should have a collection for people who are tired. You should have one for people who are depressed. I'm like, we're not a doctor. This is not what we're doing. We make like nice candles and beautiful scents. You know, it's like the art of a life well lived, right? But we are not at all trying to solve someone's problems. We are trying to be additive to someone's life.