The Simple Formula Behind an 8-Figure Sustainable Brand

10:58Lauren Gropper:Okay. But 2010 to 2016 is a long period of time.

11:03Jordan Gal:Rough waters.

11:04Lauren Gropper:And it sounds like in many ways the onus was on you at Repurpose to be engaging in a lot of this consumer education, but also retailer education to both convince retailers that you deserved space on shelves and also to convince consumers of the merits of using this. What were some of the mistakes you made early on when it comes to that education process?

11:31Jordan Gal:So many. We made so many mistakes. I mean, on the education side, we didn't have the budgets. I mean, we had really minimal marketing budgets. We were like living on a shoestring to be able to do anything. And so it was sort of early days of social. We relied on that and influencers and whatnot. But really you're hitting like a tiny fraction with the budgets that we had. So I think what we did was probably try to penetrate too much of the market early on when really we probably only had a, you know, a consumer buy-in on the West Coast, probably maybe some of the, you know, Northeast Coast. Really it was like a coastal thing and maybe some pockets of, you know, various metropolitan areas throughout the country, but it was not widespread across the country in terms of just awareness or desire for these kinds of products.

12:18Jordan Gal:So I would have focused more heavily on those markets and just gone very deep there versus trying to kind of like peanut butter spread across the country and, you know, support that. It was really hard.

12:31Lauren Gropper:Is that a piece of advice that you would still give to founders in this space today? Narrow the focus? Or do you feel like the landscape has changed stuff.

12:40Jordan Gal:I think the landscape has changed so much, especially with e-commerce. You can really, I mean, you can be available for everyone everywhere, but I would focus my marketing budget, yes, on those areas that I feel have the strongest consumer market for my product. Absolutely.

12:57Lauren Gropper:Being innovative is a double-edged sword, right? On the one hand, everybody wants to be a disruptor in the category. And on the other hand, if you're too far ahead of the curve, you're kind of S.O.L. Where do you feel like Repurpose was in that spectrum?

13:14Jordan Gal:I think we always had, I mean, after we had that for the one SKU, we moved on to more SKUs where some of the SKUs had that sort of broad appeal. They weren't necessarily super innovative, but they were kind of the workhorses where they, you know, people would need them and use them. It was kind of like everyday essential type thing, like a everyday plate, just like a dinner plate. It was innovative and is innovative still in that we're using upcycled sugar cane versus any kind of like virgin paper. So we're taking the waste from the sugar industry. They don't use the cane, they use the juice. And then we use the cane, grind it up and that becomes a plate.

13:47Jordan Gal:So it is innovative, but at the end of the day, it's a plate. And that was one where we definitely had interest from consumers and buyers, but then we'd have to also, we'd also have to have something that was like super innovative just to kind of like give us an edge, I guess, and give us that brand cashier and give us something that people really aspired to. So we always lead with something super innovative while at the same time delivering kind of the basics that people need.

14:17Lauren Gropper:When you launched, you were, if not entirely, virtually alone in the category. You think about that from the from the retailer's perspective where even were you trying to persuade them to place you when there wasn't an entire aisle of right sustainable compostable products great

14:34Jordan Gal:question in the early days they were sort of like oh we'll put you in the section with the green

14:38Lauren Gropper:cleaning and the natural baby food and you're again you know we're like no they're not going

14:44Jordan Gal:to come looking for us there we want to be right next to the big legacy players in the paper products aisle please put us there so that's eventually where we landed and that's where we've done well. I mean, I think people scan in the aisle, you have literally three seconds to kind of catch their eye and say, hey, we're different. And when we launched, we definitely tried to look different, to feel different. I mean, we are different and just sort of stand out from what has been there for 50 years plus to sort of say, hey, this is something you can do different. And I think that alone, just trying to kind of like brand ourselves as different, maybe a little more modern, younger, is what helped us stand out in those early years.

15:25Jordan Gal:Now everything looks like that. We didn't obviously create that look and feel, but I think just products on shelf have gotten beautiful, you know, and different. And everybody has a point of view and looks amazing. But our aisle is still a little bit behind. The Legacy Players are, you know, they've been around a long time. It does not look like the way the rest of kind of the snack aisle does where everything is bright colors and cool patterns. And, you know, that's what we tried to bring to the aisle along with, hey, this is sustainable and the rest is not. So.

15:58Lauren Gropper:And did it work?

15:58Jordan Gal:It worked.

15:59Lauren Gropper:Right away?

16:03No.

16:04Jordan Gal:Not right away. I mean, I think it worked in certain markets really well, and I think it did help us stand out. But I think the reason we've been able to kind of stay ahead, continue to be successful in the markets that we're in is we figured out how to sell through. So like, it's one thing to get on the shelf. It's another thing to actually have people buy you time and time again, or to kind of bring new to brand buyers to your brand. And I think we've always thought of ourselves as omni, meaning we're available online and in store, you know, anywhere people shop, we are. And so that just kind of putting our efforts across multiple channels has a halo effect to the other channels.

16:49Jordan Gal:So maybe you see us on, you know, on our e-commerce site, on repuers.com, or you see us on, you know, Instacart or what have you, or Amazon or wherever. You may not buy then, but then you see us on shelf and you recognize the look and feel of the brand and then you purchase. So having kind of that omni-channel strategy and really kind of trying to be everywhere all at once, though it is expensive, It's what really drives sell-through on the other channels. Like they all kind of play into each other.

17:18Lauren Gropper:It's symbiotic in a way. It's symbiotic, yeah, exactly. But in so many ways, the relationship and the dynamic with a brick-and-mortar retailer is pretty different from the D2C universe. Are you servicing those customer bases differently?

17:34Jordan Gal:Yes, definitely. The SKU offering is different. Kind of what is highlighted in each is different. What people love on e-commerce is not always the same as what they love on shelf, which is interesting because I think best-in-class brands, you know, the number one item on the shelf is also the number one item, you know, on the website is also the number one item wherever. And for us, it's actually a little different. Yeah. So our number one item on the shelf is not the number one item online. And I think that's because our number one item on shelf is a plate, a plate and a bowl. and that's because people are buying kind of, they're in store, they're having a party, oh, got to get the plates or they know they're having an event and it's almost like a last minute purchase.

18:17Jordan Gal:You're not often thinking ahead of, oh, I'm gonna have people over next week. Let's spend the time going online shopping for this so that in five days I'll have my plates. Whereas online, people are subscribing to things that they use every day. We make trash bags, we make toilet paper, sustainable trash bags and bamboo toilet paper, but those can be subscribed to. It's just every day. You don't want to think about it. And so that's what's really popular in e-com, just the products that you use all the time every day and it just comes to your door. I also think people don't want to have to lug a giant thing of toilet paper from a supermarket shelf.

18:55So it's interesting.

18:56Jordan Gal:It's a different use case.

18:58Lauren Gropper:In the early days, you were virtually alone on shelf with no other competitors, and that had its own challenges being so early to market. And now the shelf is full of competitors. That's its own challenge. To what extent do you think Repurpose is responsible for the category exploding in the way that it has? And what's your relationship with the competition?

19:24Jordan Gal:I think my biggest accomplishment, our biggest accomplishment, and what I can tell my grandkids one day is that, you know, we helped to change this entire category. I don't think we are solely responsible, but we certainly played a decent part in changing the category, which I feel amazing about. So on the one hand, I'm really happy that, you know, everything is now basically compostable or sustainable in some way. That's amazing. Although it's now just table stakes. So how do we differentiate as a brand? Like, why do we need to be there if everything is compostable? And I think where we're focused now is really kind of interesting design.

20:02Jordan Gal:So how can we bring design into the fold where someone is able to, it's not just a simple paper plate, maybe it has a different shape, different form factor. We make these amazing disposable wine glasses that are compostable that just look beautiful. You'd want them whether they're compostable or not. So I think we're trying to appeal to kind of people that love something that is just a commodity, but they want it designed more beautifully and more elevated. And it's also sustainable, of course, but it has that kind of extra something that's not just your, you know, average commodity product. So that's where we're leaning now.

20:36Lauren Gropper:The wine glass is so beautiful and so durable and also so much mimics plastic that you kind of wouldn't know that it's not. You wouldn't know.

20:48Jordan Gal:Yeah, you wouldn't know. Yeah.

20:49Lauren Gropper:Is that its own barrier to overcome? A little bit.

20:51Jordan Gal:Yeah, it's funny because I was actually at a camping weekend with a bunch of other moms and dads at this school trip. And I was like, OK, I'll bring the cups. So I brought the wine cups and a bunch of people were like, oh, no, thanks. I don't use plastic. And I'm like, but it's not. And I had to explain, like they didn't realize that it wasn't because it does look exactly like a plastic cup. And they were actually so excited after the fact, like, oh, my God, this isn't plastic. What? And I was like, yeah, not at all. And it's made from actually like corn and they compost in 90 days. They're like, what?

21:25Jordan Gal:No microplastics. So I think it's hard. We have to do all the education on the package. It's easier online when you have a lot more room to tell the story in the way that you use infographics or videos or whatever it is to show. But like on shelf, it's got to be on that package. So I think the more that we can tell the story and like lean in, for example, like on e-com, that is one of our top products because I think you can see how it's used. you can understand why it's not plastic and no microplastics. And we can share all that information where it's a little harder if someone's just seeing it at a party.

21:59Jordan Gal:I don't think they realize.

22:00Lauren Gropper:Do you have any nuggets of brand messaging wisdom, especially when we're talking about being on shelf in terms of how to engage in the education that feels like it's giving the consumer enough without it feeling overwhelming, giving it to them in a way that It feels interesting without them feeling like they're being spoken down to or that it's spinach. Like that feels like such a tough line to walk.

22:28Jordan Gal:So hard, especially because, which I agree with, there are specific federal guidelines and state guidelines that dictate what you can and cannot say. And they're quite prohibitive. So you can't say just broad-based terms like eco-friendly cups. You can't say eco-friendly. We can't even, for example, in California, use the term biodegradable because biodegradable doesn't have a third-party certification to it. Like this chair is biodegradable technically.

22:56Lauren Gropper:Because everything will biodegrade at some point. Okay, so explain to me also then the distinction for everybody between biodegradable versus compostable.

23:05Jordan Gal:Biodegradable is the term that I think is most widely known, which is something will degrade. The product will degrade eventually over time. It will not last forever. However, biodegradable has no specific timeline associated with it. Compostable means it will also degrade. However, it has to degrade in a certain timeline. So to be certified compostable, the product has to basically completely degrade into the soil within 90 days. If it's home compostable, it's within 12 months.

23:36Lauren Gropper:That's a very different metric.

23:38Jordan Gal:It's a very different metric. So like in three months, this thing has to be gone in a municipal or industrial compost. And why they say that? Because it's a very controlled environment. You have really high levels of heat, humidity, oxygen. All those things are playing together so that this thing, the product will break down within 90 days. You've had 15 years of figuring out this matrix of performance versus sustainability versus affordability.

24:05Lauren Gropper:Things that I would think could be in conflict with one another.

24:09Jordan Gal:Yes, they are in conflict with one another.

24:10Lauren Gropper:Okay, so how -

24:11Jordan Gal:They definitely are in conflict with one another.

24:13Lauren Gropper:Can you take us into the process of how you make that assessment and how you know when you're sort of getting into this sweet spot? And if it's helpful, maybe times that you got it wrong and learned from that.

24:26Jordan Gal:Yeah. We've gotten it wrong a number of times. I think where we have gotten wrong mostly, and I think I have like the founder-itis of this, which is like, ooh, shiny object. Like, ooh, innovation. I definitely lean more that way. And so I get really like bedazzled by a new kind of material or a new resin or what have you that is like, oh, we can make this out of that. Isn't that cool? And you go down the path of like, yeah, but it's just way too expensive. And at the end of the day, it doesn't perform. Like we've had this amazing kind of instead of plastic to seal the product, we use this sort of like compostable bag.

25:06Jordan Gal:And it was super compostable. We thought the performance was great. And then lo and behold, on shelf, it was like the bag was just like tearing open. The product was just falling out. That's just horrible. And, you know, we thought we were doing something great. But no, we just didn't do enough testing. We rushed it. We were like, yeah, let's do this. This is amazing. I really wanted to do it. And we didn't have the right product and we rushed it. I think a lot of the times when we rush things because we think it's going to be like first to market or new or innovative and like, oh, this would be so great.

25:38Jordan Gal:we got to get this in front of whatever. It's really kind of bit us most of the time.

25:43Lauren Gropper:So there is tech that you are excited about that just can't be introduced at the mass level yet.

25:48Jordan Gal:I know. And there's so much that I mean right now that I would love to commercialize and bring to market that is just so unique. But either the price is too high or the performance isn't quite there. That's usually the challenge. The sustainability factor is so high and so amazing and that's what I get excited about. Like that's what gets me really jazzed. But then the practical measures aren't there.

26:12Lauren Gropper:It's gotta be frustrating as a founder and as the leader of a mission-driven business where you really are trying to make a positive impact on the planet and you have, right? How many pieces of plastic have you diverted?

26:27Jordan Gal:727 million.

26:28Lauren Gropper:Say that again?

26:29Jordan Gal:727 million pieces. Wow.

26:31Lauren Gropper:Yeah, that's remarkable, right? You can lay your head down on the pillow at night, and yet the problem continues to feel larger and more insurmountable, it seems, by the day. It does. When you started, microplastics were not in the conversation really whatsoever, right?

26:48Jordan Gal:No, I didn't even know what they were.

26:49Lauren Gropper:Now they're mainstream. I read something yesterday that they're in every organ of our body or something horrifying. It's horrifying. Fetuses are being born with it. It's crazy, right? How does that impact you as a human being, but also as a business leader of an organization that is trying to affect positive change? Is it motivating or sometimes you just want to lie down on the couch?

27:12Jordan Gal:It's both, depending on the day. It is motivating for me, actually. I do feel like, okay, then we have to do more. Let's do more. How can we do more, do better? I want to be that company that actually is taking a stand and trying to do better. But then there are those days, too, where it just, you know, some days it just seems insurmountable. And it's like a tidal wave. Oh, you know, you hear news about certain chemicals being now allowed to be sprayed on all pesticides. And it's like, oh, my gosh, you know, it's hard. I think, though, that for me, I just I tend to be a positive person. I want to focus on what we can do and do whatever I can to make it better.

27:56Lauren Gropper:In those moments where it feels like something akin to burnout might be creeping in, what do you do to combat it?

28:04Jordan Gal:Take a break, you know, even if it's just like, go take a walk. Whatever it is that are like, go be with the kids. Just get your head out of the mess of it. I think every founder, every entrepreneur deals with this. It's like such a roller coaster. There is a lot of burnout. Sometimes you feel like you're kind of like banging your head against the wall or we use the pushing the boulder up the hill. analogy a lot. It is really hard. It is super, super hard. But then you have this like great news or something really cool that happens with your product or like your team does something really amazing and it just kind of like propels you to the next step, that next level.

28:41Jordan Gal:But yeah, I tend to kind of like take a walk, get in nature, just get out of the day-to-day of it and step away and come back.

28:50Lauren Gropper:And appreciate the small wins.

28:52Jordan Gal:Appreciate the small wins for sure.

28:54Lauren Gropper:You recently launched bamboo toilet paper. Yes. Can you explain to us what makes it so different from regular toilet paper and why that was the next evolution in your product expansion?

29:08Jordan Gal:Bamboo toilet paper, for one thing, uses bamboo versus virgin paper from trees. So you're not cutting down trees. You're using a renewable resource. Bamboo is like a weed. It just grows the minute you cut it down. So it uses significantly less water to produce as well, less energy. So that alone, just using bamboo versus trees is a huge environmental one. However, the other big piece and the reason why I believe bamboo toilet paper has kind of taken off in the world is because bamboo toilet paper does not contain forever chemicals called PFAS. And those forever chemicals are in most conventional toilet paper.

29:46Jordan Gal:So as people become more aware of the problem with PFOS and the links to cancer, it probably might be a good idea to think about the toilet paper that you're using day in, day out, every day. And I think that just kind of educating people on what is in conventional toilet paper has resulted in kind of an interest in the alternatives, bamboo being the biggest one.

30:07Lauren Gropper:God, it's like you kind of have to be the bearer of bad news. I know.

30:10Jordan Gal:I feel like such a Debbie Downer.

30:11Lauren Gropper:But then you're like, but I've got the solution. But you could have something different. Yeah, I know.

30:15Jordan Gal:It is kind of like wah, wah. But then, you know, there is this great solution. And, you know, there is a little bit of a price premium, not just our product. But Bamboo is, because it's not at scale of kind of like the gigantic, you know, toilet paper manufacturers, we're not quite there yet. But there are many brands besides us kind of out there really trying to push this. And it's what's growing the category. So it provides the growth in the category. So I think it's just going to get bigger and bigger and soon be mainstream.

30:45Lauren Gropper:You started the company with the brand positioning of sustainability first.

30:50Jordan Gal:Yes.

30:50Lauren Gropper:Has that shifted over the years? Is that still what you're leading with?

30:54Jordan Gal:It is always sort of part of our DNA, but I think it's not necessarily what we're leading with now. It's always going to be there. And we want to be known as kind of a brand that you can trust. We're authentic. We walk our talk. We'll be very transparent. But I think we want people to know more about kind of how it impacts them, their health, the health of their family. So a lot of our products are, or all of our products, are non-toxic. So we offer a safe alternative to the conventional products that may or may not, you know, have microplastics or PFAS or what have you. And we are offering an alternative.

31:29Jordan Gal:And I think people care, sadly, a little more about that than they do about the kind of environment at large. So while we as a company are, you know, through and through sustainable, I think our messaging and what we're kind of sharing first and foremost is more about microplastics and toxins than, you know, here's the amount of trees that you're going to save.

31:50Lauren Gropper:From an internal perspective, how did you assess how and when to start to make that transition?

31:56Jordan Gal:It was really just sort of how messages were being kind of perceived. So we would, like any company, test different messages, use different ad formats. And what people were really kind of responding to most was messages around microplastics, messages around PFOS, messages around issues that they cared about that were kind of impacting their own health and the health of their family versus messages of sustainability.

32:20Lauren Gropper:Got to meet people where they are.

32:22Jordan Gal:Got to meet people where they are. Yes. Give us a little bit of hope. I think today's consumer, the younger generation, they just expect sustainability. It's like, it's almost an expectation. It's not a feature. So of course it's sustainable. You know, that's just table stakes. I know that. Now what? So I think to your point about like, we started leading there and then it just became mainstream and table stakes. So then what?

32:48Lauren Gropper:The problem can feel insurmountable in moments. Are you, having been inside this thing so deeply, hopeful that there is a potential brighter future ahead for us if we're willing to make these shifts?

33:01Jordan Gal:I am very hopeful. I'm super hopeful. I think for sure, I really do believe that within a decade, we're not going to see petroleum-based plastics. We're not going to see PFAS and toilet paper. All these things will be gone.

33:14Lauren Gropper:Love to hear that.

33:15Jordan Gal:Yeah, yes.

33:16Lauren Gropper:AI is obviously unavoidable, right, and can supercharge your workflow in so many ways. Can you talk about how you've brought it into the business and your workflows?

33:29Jordan Gal:It's one of those things as well that is challenging for me because of the environmental impact. So I don't think people are super aware of the amount of energy that AI requires to actually operate and the huge data centers that use significant amount of energy to actually just, you know, make AI function. So there is that kind of like, well, I want to lean on AI so heavily because it is incredible. We have brought it into our organization. We do use it daily, but we're very conscious to understand, okay, you know, which tools are we using? Do they offset anything? Like we're conscious of what we're using and perhaps maybe how can we offset some of the kind of the footprint that we create using AI.

34:10Jordan Gal:And it is a challenge because it is amazing. We actually brought in a group to come and do sort of an online course. We have a group that teaches our whole company so that we have a single vocabulary now. so that the whole team is aware of like how to use ChatGPT, how to create GPTs, how to create projects, how to use the tools to create new interesting marketing assets. You know, we use it for all of our scopes of work to put in kind of like standardized procedures. We use it in finance. I mean, we use it for everything. Shout out to Chat Walrus. Craig Folds, Chat Walrus. There you go.

34:46Lauren Gropper:Yeah. In hindsight, do you think being so early to market was a blessing or a curse?

34:54Jordan Gal:I think a bit of both, honestly. I don't think it's great to be always first to market. It can be. It's nice to be like a close second. A fast follower, as they say. Being ahead of the market is challenging because you burn resources, you spend money, and trying to kind of like educate the market and bring the consumer along. It's like surfing. I was talking about this with one of our sales guys the other day. Shout out to Cody. He's like, it's so much like surfing. Like, you don't want to be too early. You're going to miss the wave completely. And if you're too late, same thing. It's like, it's really hard to get the timing exactly right.

35:29Jordan Gal:But I think if you're doing something innovative, yeah, you do want to be more on the early side than the late side, for sure. But if you are too early, you're just spending a lot of like money that's really hard to get to advance the company. I mean, those early day kind of investors are amazing, but you're not necessarily getting huge amounts to kind of prove your concept. You have to be so careful with every dollar. So when you're very far ahead of the market, it's just it's tough.

35:57Lauren Gropper:Now, with the benefit of perspective, do you have any advice for others in terms of how they can assess getting that timing right? Or to some degree, is it luck?

36:08Jordan Gal:To some degree, it's luck and they come out and they have this incredible product and they've got the right mix of kind of buzz around it and it just goes. It's amazing. And hats off to those people who do incredible jobs at making that work. I think the advice is like, yes, if you have something innovative and you truly do have something innovative, go for it. You've got to go. You've got to try it. But be really thoughtful about your go-to-market and, you know, your marketing plan and how you spend every dollar. Be really thoughtful about the markets that you go into. And it's a challenging proposition when you're bringing innovation to market and you're early.

36:43Jordan Gal:It is.

36:44Lauren Gropper:On the flip side, is there something that you can point to that you did in the first six months of being in business that you think set you up for long-term success?

36:52Jordan Gal:Yes. I think we were very much like a sales first organization where it was like, you can sit there and tweak your product till the cows come home and make it perfect. And we were like, okay, it's not totally perfect, but we got to sell. Like, let's go. We got to show revenue here. Like it was always about revenue. Like, let's go, let's make things that people want. And if it's not absolutely perfect, but almost all the way there, like, let's take it to market. Because we were sales first. We were like, how are we going to make a sale? Let's go.

37:22Lauren Gropper:Lauren, thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Serena.

37:24Jordan Gal:This has been amazing. Really appreciate it.

37:26Lauren Gropper:And thanks to all of you for tuning into Shopify Masters. If you like what you saw, be sure to hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode.