The Solo Founder Who Did Everything Herself and Still Beat Beauty Industry Giants

0:00I remember so vividly someone said to me, don't ever consider launching a laundry detergent. They said, that is the dumbest idea I've ever heard. And today it's 30 % of our business. Hey everyone, welcome to Shopify Masters. I'm Shuang Esther Shan, and this is your companion for starting and building a business. What happens when a 21 year old with no business experience decides to blow up a$62 billion industry? You get dead cool. It started with making maybe a hundred bottles and going to all the stores in LA, knocking on the door, asking if I could retail my product on consignment. Karina Chaz went against everything luxury perfume houses wanted us to believe.

0:47She made scents that aren't just reserved for special occasions. Her vision was simple. Your signature scent can live everywhere. In your laundry, on your dog, in your car, you name it. Since launching in 2016, Karina has built Dekul into a multi-million dollar brand that's now carried in Sephora, Credo, Urban Outfitters, and many more. Karina, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. So happy to have you here. We know that we often say the sense of smell is the strongest link to memory, and this could not be more true for you. As a kid, you played around with essential oils and different fragrances.

1:30At what point in your life did you think this passion could turn into a business? There was no world where I anticipated my love of fragrance to translate into a business, my career. It's funny because, again, Dead Cool, and I have said this on you know, many podcasts and interviews, Dead Cool started as a passion project. It was a hobby. It started on Instagram. I've been playing with fragrances from a very young age. And ultimately the idea of creating scent that was personal and kind of, you know, a piece of my individuality was definitely the start and the goal. And to understand that, you know, we've been able to grow it and get to this place is exciting.

2:20And I always say pinch me moments and fever dreams. And I'm very blessed to be in this position. And I'm very excited that people love Dead Cools. Yeah. I think the element of building something on Instagram, sharing your journey of playing around with different scents and building up fragrances is also the fact that you're building up community. How did just starting a business, building in public, building with a community allowed you to have this career and also have those moments? It's funny. I say the moment I started dead cool and we joke, you know, we say dead cool wasn't a real business until 2020, but ultimately it was dreamed up in 2016.

3:04And the moment, you know, I didn't even know beauty influencers, beauty Instagram. And this is again, 2016 when everything was monochromatic. And I think it was very early in the beauty influencing days. But I always say that when I started Dead Cool, I acquired 200 new friends and the founder community is very tight. The creator community, the consumer community, you know, with the power of social media and Instagram were for the first time able to connect with our demos firsthandedly. We launched one of our best-selling fragrances based off of a community and consumer ask. So the community aspect is very important.

3:51Without that, Dead Cool would not be where it's at currently. And we continue to foster it and grow it and ultimately see how we can be better, be more proactive, truly understand what our consumer needs. So the community point of view is a huge and very important pillar within Dead Cool and how we're continuing to grow and why we exist. Yeah. And I think, you know, being an entrepreneur is not one singular event that switches you from a non-founder to a founder. Those years from 2016 to 2020 are very formative. But if you were to pinpoint some moments or even some mental hurdles you've had where you're like, okay, now I think I'm actually building a business, what would you say some of those moments would be?

4:44It's funny. My story and evolution of being a founder, now CEO, and the very early days, Like I mentioned earlier, there was no anticipation of Dead Cool ever being anything other than an Instagram vibes page. And I always say that one step led me to the next. And, you know, the cliche of, you know, one door closed, the next door opens. I dreamed this up in college so again had no experience I had you know little jobs here and there at art galleries and clothing stores and the idea was really to grow and learn from hands-on experience and I joke now that you know I was the only executor I I basically was a one woman show up until 2022.

5:43So if I needed to get somewhere, if I needed to get the product in the hands of someone, it was my mission to make it happen. And, you know, my journey has quite changed now where we have a full team, but the, you know, there's many inflection points within, you know, my journey and especially where we're at today. But ultimately it was, you know, 2016 as, hey, I have this idea and I'm going to see what's possible. And I always joke that I had the opposite of imposter syndrome where today the stakes are so much higher. So I definitely have imposter syndrome, but I fully believe that this could be real.

6:24And there were little moments I'll give the example of, you know, my first aha, where it again, no tangible product, no real samples. It was a dreamy Instagram page of what Dead Cool could be and what it, you know, the North Star of this fragrance. It was Nasty Gal that had reached out via Instagram and said, hey, and remember this is 2016 when like Nasty Gal had stores and it was the coolest store and, you know, hats off to Sophia. She built an empire. But ultimately they reached out and they said, hey, we love this concept. Would you be interested in selling your product at our store? And that moment I had thought to myself, I made it.

7:09Dead cool doesn't even exist. We have interest in Nasty Gal, the coolest store ever, a destination for online when the e-commerce boom hadn't quite happened yet. And I remember I called a supplier and a printer and got free samples and basically, you know, created one batch to hand deliver at Nasty Gal. And I remember at the time I was living at my parents' house. This is college. And my mom drove me to downtown Los Angeles and I went into the elevator and I remember so specifically the top penthouse button said Nasty Gal. Wow. That is incredible. I was so nervous. I pressed the button. I had a little box of these like handmade samples.

7:55I delivered it. I went home and then didn't hear from them. And then I, my dad does this thing where he always gives me newspaper clippings and he cut this newspaper for me maybe two weeks after the fact and said, you know, it said nasty gal was out of business and it destroyed me because I was like, my one opportunity is gone. But at the end of the day, I reflected and I thought to myself, if Nasty Gal is interested in this product, then there is opportunity elsewhere. And that was the thing that allowed me and gave me the confidence to take that next opportunity and that next approach. And it started with making maybe a hundred bottles and going to all the stores in LA, knocking on the door asking if I could retail my product on consignment because again, we weren't proven.

8:48I mean, we, I always say we, me and the brand. It was a concept. And I remember so vividly the stores calling me maybe a month, two months later, and they said, hey, customers really like this. Do you have any more? And we're happy to take it off consignment. And those mom and pop businesses ultimately funded Dead Cool for about four years. And it was the little pop-up shops and the little trunk shows and introducing the product to people who ultimately, again, would be exposed to it for the first time. And I always joke now, I'm like, I know I've made it when we have events. Obviously, our events are a little more elaborate than the trunk shows that I used to do.

9:37And the best thing ever is walking in and it's already displayed for you. You don't have to like build things, take it out of your trunk like a 15 hour day. But, you know, again, those moments, they make you and you get real time with customers experiencing the product for the first time. And it's quite amazing to see, you know, where we started and where we're at now. But, you know, it was hard. A lot of no's, a lot of rejection, a lot of critical feedback. And, you know, for some reason or another, I let that take me to the next level. I remember so vividly someone said to me, no customer will ever trust you to wash their clothes.

10:27Don't ever consider launching a laundry detergent because at the moment, you know, this is what, 2017 where I'm like, I want to be an innovator in the scent world. And they said, that is the dumbest idea I've ever heard. And today, 30 % of our business. So there's moments where ultimately you just really have to trust your gut and intuition and allow those experiences to shape the next phase of your career, of your life, you know, whatever it is that you're focused on and whatever it is you're building. But yeah, I mean, it was six, seven years of knocking on doors, cold calling, trunk shows, rejections, and you grow from those experiences you learn.

11:11And I'm very thankful to have had, you know, my hand in every single piece of the business. And those are such incredible moments, I think, because what I love about them the most is they could have been turning points where you actually turn back and just stopped trying the business. But instead, I felt like even when you had things that didn't work out or you had people tell you no, you notice the next summit and you're interested to keep going and kind of keep climbing on this journey, which I think is extremely incredible, especially for someone who is trying to make this on their own for so long from 2016 to the turning point of actually feeling like you're building a business in 2020 and still doing it solo.

12:02for a couple of years after that, how do you manage to be a solo founder for a long time? And how do you keep yourself motivated for that long period where you are trying, you are getting rejections, but you're still going? So it's interesting. You said something that I wanted to touch on. And going back to what I mentioned earlier, where there are inflection point rejections, And I maybe was optimistic, naive, all of the things that ultimately led me here. But there were many moments, I want to say, throughout the early years of Dead Cool and the cultivation of what it is today where I had to take a step back and think, what the heck am I doing?

12:53I know this business is working. It's ultimately moving and growing. but I have no idea. Can I pay myself? Can I invest in photo shoots? Can I invest in a digital agency to help grow awareness on ads? I hit a roadblock where ultimately I didn't understand the financial piece of my business and that created immense amount of insecurity. And I remember calling my CPA and asking him, how much can I invest in a photo shoot? How much can I work with like a micro influencer? I just didn't quite understand. I didn't even have a business model where I had a turning point. I knew I was going in the right direction.

13:51I just didn't quite know that next step. And at this point, still being a one-woman show, exhausted, felt like I was reaching for things that weren't attainable, didn't quite understand the strategy piece. So yes, there were definitely days that I wanted to give up. And in 2019, we entered into Barney's for the first time and that was under consignment. And again, And like these were my North Stars and I had accomplished it and I always wanted more, but I didn't quite know at this point, let's say 2019, 2020, where to take it. And then obviously COVID hit and that was a very concerning moment where one, are people going to buy fragrance?

14:39Two, can we even produce our fragrance? Three, it was March 13th, 2020. That was the day the world shut down. And that was the day that we launched our laundry detergent. And there were moments where, again, we were still teetering off of being a real business, being very much this like scrappy, nimble, bootstrap, don't have a financial model approach, which, you know, again, I wouldn't change my experience. but those were definitely concerning moments. It's incredible to hear how much you've done on your own for so many years with limited budget, especially being in the beauty space where you're competing with these large conglomerates.

15:26What were some of the strategies or approaches you took that made sure that you stood out amongst the competition? So it's interesting. exactly to your point beauty is extremely competitive even today you know we're up against the biggest names in beauty and when we take a step back and we look at what dead cool is founded on it is a unique perspective within the fragrance category and you know prior to i always said that fragrance was the ugly sepsister of beauty it was very much rooted in luxury um people weren't utilizing or identifying fragrance as a tool of self-expression. And it was more of just like a holiday gift from your distant aunt that you didn't want to spray because it was so expensive and it was so precious.

16:18And it meant nothing other than just like this kind of extension of something. But, you know, with new generations, new conversation around fragrance and beauty, people are utilizing it in a different way. And I think Dead Cool has always, at its core, has been about self-expression and talking about a scented lifestyle. And for me, being a consumer and also the founder of this company, there is this perspective for me, And again, this was hobby, passion project, personal project, how I want to utilize fragrance in a new way and the positioning of Dead Cool being an extension of everyday touch points, using scent in unconventional ways.

17:10that message allowed us to compete and have a different perspective, tell a different story within our quote unquote competitors and the people that, you know, we're trying to be on the same shelf as, but ultimately without that messaging and without that unique perspective and point of view, I don't know where we would be. You know, we never aimed to be just a regular fragrance brand. I would say we're a scent company. We like to meet the customer where they're at. And because we had no budget, the power of our messaging and the power of our positioning allowed us to position ourselves in a way that was unique.

17:56Yeah. I mean, I truly think you were being so innovative within this category and it is so far ahead of the trend because right now on socials, you know, there is so much discussion about fragrance and you were talking about fragrance almost a decade ago. And I believe the word milk and other gourmand kind of wording wasn't used ever for a very long time. And that's something that is known for debt cool. And even for the laundry detergent, right? This is something that people told you not to launch. You have these ideas. You probably go to suppliers, production partners, and you're trying to tell them your idea and advocate for yourself.

18:41What is your advice there? Because you're trying to innovate and change the category when you're trying to pitch these people who are not used to working with someone like you. Understanding again, the early part of my career is you really have to trust your gut And I know that sounds cheesy. And at the end of the day, your drive, your intuition, your instinct is going to lead you to the place you need to be at. And for me, it was really about continuously having these conversations with the people around me, with myself. Does this make sense? Is this weird? Is this out of the box? And sometimes you have to be okay with that.

19:29And it's hard. I mean, we all, you know, we're all products of our environment. It's a competitive landscape. I hear it all the time and I get the question, you know, what's your biggest advice when starting a company? And it's really about understanding, you know, the approach of maybe a slow and steady, but truly focused on your vision and how you see this coming to life and doing every single thing to make it possible. and without the trust within yourself, you know, there's no opportunity. So I think it really starts with that. But yes, I definitely had a lot of raised eyebrows and I kind of at the time thought it was funny, but now if people raise their eyebrows at me, I have to take a step back and really, really think about it.

20:20But I definitely leaned into the intuition and instinct and, you know figured out a way to to make it happen even for the laundry detergent part right convincing someone to focus on the scent part of developing this product and introducing it as a product that didn't exist in either the cleaning aisle or the fragrance aisle like how do you even approach talking to a producer and getting them on board because i think for Where listeners, they have new ideas and they need to talk to people who are almost the gatekeepers of production and try to convince them to actually be in partnership. At the end of the day, and we're still having these conversations where some people don't believe in the category and they do not want to invest in it and they do not want to retail it, which is totally fine.

21:18Um, you know, it, it does take convincing the world of beauty and so many different kinds of categories and consumer goods there. It's always evolving. And it's not quite about getting producers or buyers or whomever it may be to believe in you because sometimes they won't. You just have to make the case for yourself and at the end of the day, make it happen. I mean, again, there's still moments where I'm like, how do I make X, Y, and Z happen for our laundry category? I'm still facing these challenges, but ultimately to produce it, let's say at the end of the day, the manufacturers have no choice.

22:15It's more of like, okay, if you want to risk this and make this product, then the investment's on you. And for me, I was willing to take that risk. But yes, there's definitely still hurdles and obstacles that we deal with on a daily basis within, again, expansion, conversation on category. you know we've heard time and time again x y and z is never going to work and at this point we have data to support you know all of our kind of growth metrics and execution strategies but ultimately it's it's really about foundation and staying true to that and i believe dead coal has done a really good job of continuously having unique conversations around fragrance it's a special time to be in this space because it has grown so much.

23:10And it's incredible to think about you contacting the local stores within LA and building up those relationships. What do you take from those early day relationships now that you are working with bigger partners like Sephora and Credo? And what kind of advice would you have for someone who's like going through that pitch process where they're trying to unlock a really good partnership. It's funny, you know, there's always moments where I'm driving through the city and I can point out, I'm like, that is the first store that Dead Cool was carried at. And it's such a moment and you have to have gratitude and appreciation for the people who allowed you to basically be within their retail footprint.

23:56And I always take my hat off to the mom and pop shops. You know, my parents are a very, very small, you know, in a previous life, they own a very small manufacturing facility. And I come from like two very hardworking immigrant parents. I'm an only child. So, you know, I went to work with them And the appreciation I have for these like small mom and pop shops and allowing them to curate Dead Cool, you know, if that weren't the case, Dead Cool would not exist. So, you know, the retail, the relationships, it's relationships are everything. I have nothing but amazing things to say about Sephora. And, you know, we spoke to Sephora two years prior to launching because, as I mentioned, it is a big lift, whether it be inventory, whether it be marketing, sampling.

24:58So it's definitely an important relationship to have. It is quite different than my friends at the mom and pop shop, but it is a very powerful presence. Yeah. I mean, what was going through those pitching meetings or going through getting a PO and having to scale production, any of that process that kind of surprised you along the way that you think someone who is new to that would be helpful for them as they're navigating some of those early relationships? Yeah. Transparently, I didn't anticipate how big of an investment it would be. And when I say investment, it is the team, it is the inventory, and you have to front load a lot of that.

25:46And we entered into Sephora as a self-funded company. And ultimately, we had early stage investors in 2022, which allowed us to invest into the marketing initiatives that would essentially help create success at Sephora and again, other big box retailers. but ultimately you enter into a retail environment and you have to understand again it is the relationship piece it is the inventory investment it is the investment into marketing it is the investment into store into education there's so much but you know Sephora makes brands They are a huge piece of our business. And I don't think I quite anticipated one, the lift of Sephora and two, the full kind of picture of what it meant to be a Sephora brand.

26:49So my advice would always be to make sure again, your inventory, your warehousing, your team can support the launch because ultimately, you know, these, these are the moments that help you grow, help you identify, you know, that Sephora seal has been hugely important to our brand. And again, we're a digitally native brand and Sephora allows our consumer to have this like real tangible moment with our product, which we all know you can't smell fragrance through a screen and the partnership has been so important and impactful to our growth. And, you know, we continue to invest in it. We continue to grow within Sephora.

27:32And we love the people that, again, gave us that opportunity to be in such an important kind of pivotal point of our business. It's also incredible to think about launching in Sephora as more of a independent, self-funded brand, and then transitioning and having successful rounds of fundraising and how has that journey been and also you know building out the team to be able to use that funding and scale it's an interesting conversation you know dead cool had been self-funded for so long and the moment it was 2021 when i met my fractional CFO and he built a financial model and he said the good news is dead cool is profitable the bad news is no one works at dead cool and you will burn out and you cannot do this any longer and the idea of being a funded brand always seems so sparkly and not to say that it's not it's just a different conversation from being this like a very small bootstrap, nimble, scrappy, and it's funny, we're funded, we're still scrappy.

28:56But the idea of struggling to make it work was always the challenge for me because ultimately, again, we just didn't have the capital to invest in marketing. I so believed we had this really cool brand and this unique perspective, but no one would know about it because we didn't have the cash to amplify. and we partnered with Sandbridge. They're an amazing group. They are private equity. In 2022, they gave us a small round of funding and these, you know, Sandbridge has backed Ilya and used to the people and brands we know and love. And this was the smallest investment they'd ever done. And for us, we weren't quite ready to lean in and we didn't have the revenue to support, you know, such a big investment.

29:50And this was kind of getting our feet wet for the first time. And that capital allowed us to invest in team and invest in marketing. And, you know, there's a lot of conversation around beauty and private equity. And I don't want to say it's impossible to self-fund a brand because many people have done it successfully. There is so much to be said about founders and leaders who have taken on zero capital. And I take my hat off. It's amazing. and you just have to look at the consumer environment we live in now. Again, we're competing against the biggest brands in the world and without that early small check, we wouldn't be able to be in the position we're in today.

30:46So I'm very thankful. Well, it sounds like it took you a bit of time to get comfortable with taking on funding, partnering with your private equity partner, but this was also an idea from your fractional CFO. At what point did you reach this realization and how did you find the right person to take that role? Yeah, it was back to 2019 where I was burnt out and I knew the business had legs. I just didn't quite know how to get to that next phase and understanding there was opportunity and having calls with my CPA, who's just a tax guy. He was like, hey, I know someone who could help you. And I remember that someone called me and said, hey, I can do a project for you at the time.

31:41Again, this was 2021. So I went two years of being resistant and asking the questions, but not quite wanting to lean in because I was scared to spend any money. and you know I joke to this day with him that and it's true to this day my hand is still in all of the photos that we use for Dead Cool obviously now we have much larger productions but at the time it was me a photographer my hand and the bottle and I was just scared to spend money and And I think this point of, I know you need to spend money to make money. I just didn't know what I could and could not spend. And I remember again in 2021, we had an initial call and he's like, I will do a project for you.

32:31It's going to cost you this much money. And I was taken aback. And now thinking about it, it wasn't a lot of money. But to me, I had never spent anything over$500. and I basically said lose my number and then again things were really exciting and COVID and laundry was booming and I didn't have his contact because I was so offended by the price of a project that he then called me back in six months and was like just wanted to follow up how are you doing and I'm like thank God you called I need you I don't care I'll spend the money. I need help. I don't know what I'm doing. Finance is not my forte.

33:16And we've been together ever since. He's still at a fractional capacity, but ultimately, again, he empowered me to understand my financial, you know, just every piece of the business from what we could invest in to where the company could be in five years and what we needed to make it happen. And ultimately, again, paying people to work at the company because I'm not an expert in everything. Yeah. When I'm listening to that, I think of it as also just prepping yourself mentally to be comfortable there as well, because it sounds like you needed some time to be comfortable to let this fractional CFO in.