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0:00Any CEO that tells you that they know what they're doing is kind of lying because we're all charting a path that's never been done before.

0:10work. As Way's third employee, Hannah Beals played a key role in the company's journey, helping it grow from a scrappy startup founded by celebrity hairstylist Jen Atkin into a$300 million global hair care brand. If the boldness and the sense of humor is what makes us stand out, then I think that's worth all the risks we've taken. Moving into the CEO role, Hannah scaled Way to over 100 employees with distribution in major retailers like Sephora, Alta, and Nordstrom. After a few years at Way, I kind of knew it would ultimately become my destiny. Today, she joins us for her final interview as CEO, reflecting on over half a decade at one of beauty's boldest, most memorable companies.

0:47I'm your host, Serena Smith, and you're watching Shopify Masters, your companion for starting and scaling a business. Hannah, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Okay, take us back to the extent that you can remember to 2016. Way is not a big brand yet. It's not even a small brand. your employee number three. It's founded by Jen Atkin, who has these deep celebrity ties. You launch in Sephora out of the gate. From the outside, that sounds like a massive success story. What did it feel like on the inside? Like a near constant dumpster fire at the time, but the team was really small. We had no budgets and succeeding in Sephora and on D2C often requires was a lot more budget than you have at that time.

1:32And so we were scrappy and we had to get creative. And at the time, like the prestige hair category wasn't what it is today. And so people weren't shopping hair care at that price point quite as frequently as they are today. So it's just a different environment. But it was also like if you posted once on Instagram and had an aesthetic grid, then good things could happen for you. Totally different landscape from a marketing perspective. You had come from the world of fashion primarily prior. What made you want to make the jump to hair care? What made you believe in this? It was Jen. Yeah, when I met Jen, she spoke about what she wanted to do with the brand so articulately and in a way that just got me instantly excited.

2:13She had a vision not just to do things differently in the hair care category, but just a really stellar line of sight on what makes an incredible brand. and her references were from outside the beauty category. She had like 80s Range Rover ads and New Balance ads. And I could just tell that she got brand, which is my background. And I was just really excited to build what I thought the brand could be. And her as a person, the brand is very much an embodiment in a lot of ways of her. And I knew that with a founder that was that passionate and had the right eye that it would be something big. What do you think set you apart in those early days as a hair care brand from what else was in the landscape?

2:51It was a couple things. I think the packaging really stood out in the retail environment, which was noisy and filled with lots of color and complicated product names. And the brand is very quiet and minimalist. And the packaging and the names of the product is really intuitive and easy to understand. and fragrance is a core tenant of the brand's DNA. A lot of the fragrance in the category was very simple or juvenile and we wanted to create something that smelled like expensive perfume so that people would ask you like what are you wearing when you had the hair products on and from a brand POV that digital and social connection to the customer that was still new at the time and we wanted to create a brand that was really in sync with what customers were asking for instead of just telling them what they need.

3:37And the brand's tone of voice is really different in the category in how we speak to why you need a product or why you need to be a part of the way community. Instead of leaning into the technical and the functional, the ingredients and the problem solutions that we're trying to solve, we really speak to the emotional reasons why you need something or why you buy something. And that's allowed for a brand tone of voice with a lot of candor and humor and a boldness that I think people find really relatable. Yeah, I remember you joking in another conversation, like, did I just see a DNA strand? And it made me think, like, yeah, why is that the norm in hair care brands?

4:14Otherwise, it's like deeply scientific approach that, like, maybe doesn't actually really mean much to the consumer in the end. Yeah, like, I don't think the average person understands what molecular means when it relates to your hair. And so we always like to talk to our customers like they're our friends because they truly are. You have to take a step back and instead of having your advertising say, you know, available now, today, online, we just say, fine hair, we got you. And it's just a really like intuitive friend to friend way of communicating that's quite different than a lot of the more sciencey brands.

4:45It's easy to look back now and say like, oh, investing in luxury fragrance, like, of course, you know, or having a really cheeky, personal peer to peer voice, of course. But at the time when you're separating yourself in the landscape, I would imagine some of that stuff felt pretty risky. Like what felt risky to you guys that ended up paying off? And also were there some things that felt risky that didn't? I think the fragrance piece of that is huge because we spend a lot of time and money formulating fragrances with the best fragrance houses that smelled like expensive perfumes. And that became ultimately the through line that has allowed us to flex into so many different lifestyle categories.

5:29I mean, we have body care, we have an incredible fragrance business, we have deodorants that we just launched, we have many of our core hair skews across multiple fragrances. And if we didn't invest all the equity in having these complex perfumes, then we wouldn't have had that thread to expand the brand on and to get so much loyalty and passion from our customers on. And then I think just in general, the way the brand talks, like even sometimes our retail partners, you know, could advise us like maybe that's too bold or too cheeky. Like one time we had a holiday kit called the three-way kit. And then we had another one called swing both ways.

6:01And someone at the time, you know, may have said that's a little risky or maybe a little too cheeky. Doesn't say what's in the kit necessarily. What are people buying? But now we're in such an attention economy where you're just constantly competing with a million different advertisements and a million different creators talking about a million different products. And so if the boldness and the sense of humor is what makes us stand out, then I think that's worth all the risks we've taken. That direct connection to your customer is something that has been in the brand DNA since Jump. What does that look like from a practical perspective?

6:35How is it playing out? We have like a bunch of different avenues. I think most often when we're in our product development meetings once a week, we find ourselves even now sometimes stuck on a decision where like which cap should we put on the bottle or which color should we make the juice? And then we sit there and we debate in a group of 10 of us who, you know, can sometimes get lost in the sauce of having been at the brand for a long time or, you know, being in our own heads. And it's really just as simple as throwing something up on Instagram stories and saying to the people who love the brand and buy the product, which cap do you prefer?

7:07So there's live stuff that happens like that. And then we also have back channel stuff like a super fans community on Instagram. We're on TYB for digital. They power our loyalty. and we do a lot of crowdsourcing in there. We also have like direct little communities that we've created of people who are fragrance super fans and have left a comment. And we just like manually start making lists of all the people who've requested something. And then we'll come back to them when we have something related to that in the future. And so it's a lot of manual labor, but it's very high touch, direct connection to the customer.

7:38You've had massive stratospheric growth. Have there been any struggles in terms of maintaining what feels like a really one-to-one connection with your consumers? Yeah, I mean, I always say that the best ideas aren't scalable. And that's why I think in the beginning, you can have so much fun and have such a great relationship to your customer. And the bigger you get, the more exposed you are or the more corporate you become or the bigger the team is. And every single member has to be like a living, breathing embodiment of the brand and how it manifests. And that all gets really, really challenging.

8:08And so we just try to strike a balance of big mass awareness driving ideas. and then also things that still feel really one-to-one with the customer and are maybe just more intimate and special for a small niche group of people. And on the employee level, you know, I always tell everyone that everyone works on the brand team in a sense, like whether you're on the customer experience team or you're in an operations meeting with a co-manufacturer, like you are the way brand. And so just getting everyone to deeply understand the brand and how it manifests and everything from a conversation to an email to a brand presentation and all of those things.

8:46It's something that we spent a lot of time doing as a 100 plus person organization now to keep that spirit of the brand alive. You started out as marketing director, right? Yep. Moved on to CMO at one point. You're now CEO and have been for a few years. In those early days as marketing director, were there some tactics that you employed at the time that worked really well that now would just be completely obsolete. Yeah, I think we spent a lot of time focusing on the aesthetic of our grid on Instagram and like aesthetic presentation on social. And now the way that the algorithm works, it's not in favor of an aesthetic consistent presentation.

9:24I think that's also true even with like our growth marketing investments and our paid media. Like we've spent so much time sharpening our brand consistency, but actually in today's world and how the algorithm works. It's inconsistency that's valued a lot. And so finding out how to, you know, get the team enabled behind a strategy that still makes the brand manifest the way we want it to, but kind of favors the way that the new digital world operates is, you know, it's just different to when we started out and how we would have run the strategy like eight or nine years ago. For example, you know, we shoot incredible expensive brand campaigns in studio with models and they have brand approved taglines on them.

10:05And then we have to cater a million other different pieces of content to different channels. Like TikTok's a huge channel for us. We show up completely unpolished and rogue and weird on there as you should on the platform. And sometimes that's like not in keeping with the supermodel brand campaign that we just shot, but we're having to tailor every type of media for every platform, like completely custom for that channel. And so some things are really lo-fi if they need to be. And some things are really casual and informal, and then other things are really polished and beautiful, and it just depends.

10:39And so it requires the team in-house to operate like a content machine. At times, an in-house ad agency is really what it requires of us. I mean, Jen had such deep connections to celebrity out of the gate. And then as the company grew, I would imagine the potential of brand collaborations and partnerships just skyrocketed to some degree, Wei is like a masterclass and as much of what to say no to is what to say yes to. You've been there for every iteration of the company. Like, have there been some moments where you guys have had to say a really hard no that has paid off? Yeah, I can't think of a specific example, but that's definitely true.

11:23Like, you know, it's ironic. Wei means yes in casual French. And so a lot of our brand spirit is about saying kind of like yes to everything, but there are things that in the spirit of being really focused or like lasering in on our positioning and our having a narrow product pipeline and stuff, we've had to turn down like a lot of collabs that would have crowded the calendar or made us seem like they were kind of random and not in keeping with a few of the through lines that we lean into like fragrance. And so we definitely like are rich for opportunities on the creator and brand partner side.

11:58But I also think that we said yes to a lot and have done a lot of things that are unexpected and out of our lane. And I think that's also a cool part of the brand. Like we've done an activewear collaboration with Set Active. We've done a burger collaboration with Monty's Burgers. We've collaborated with Byretto, which is one of the most luxurious high fashion brands in the world. And to be able to say that you can flex high and low and do a bunch of categories like that, like, I feel like not many brands can. And so the ability to say yes to a lot of things is really uniquely ours. And so we've certainly said yes to many fun things.

12:35You wanted to say why? It's the only French I know. Do you have any advice for earlier stage founders with much more limited marketing budgets about how to flex their resources in the right way? And also what in this moment is kind of overblown and not worth it? I think the number one piece of advice would be create incredible content and figure out what that means quickly. Incredible content doesn't mean expensive content. It doesn't mean highly produced content. It just means content that resonates or breaks through. You have to try a lot of things to figure out what that is, whether that's founder content and build behind the scenes type content of the brand and the team, or whether that's, you know, really deep product education, or if it's just like fun and silly series or like, you know, a scripted series or an ownable series that you could have.

13:27But I think getting content right, which can cost you very little, is the most important thing you can do as a brand today because winning digitally is the number one way to blow up a brand. And so you have to nail your content ecosystem first and you can scale the investment behind that later. Figuring that content out and what's going to resonate requires a kind of iterative process, right? You might not get it right on the first try or even the fifth, but would you recommend, you know, as a brand is trying to find its footing and establish its identity, that that's okay to be like taking those swings and trying things out until you figure out what works?

14:05For sure. Everything only lasts 24 hours on the internet. Okay. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, at this stage of the game with this like extremely broadened customer base and you're functioning in so many different channels. How are you driving LTV up and getting your customers coming back time again and keeping them excited about way? I think first and foremost, having them be a part of the entire journey keeps them loyal and excited to what's coming. The story I tell a million times over about the brand is the story of our St. Bart's fragrance. It's a hair and body mist. It smells like vacation in a bottle, really.

14:41And that started for us a couple years back as a limited edition hair and body scrub that we did in St. Bart's scent as a summertime exclusive for Sephora. And people were so obsessed with the scent, like they went feral for it. And we had all of these people begging us, make it permanent, make it more of a body collection. And so we expanded it into body. And then we had people that were like clamoring for it to become a perfume or a hair and body mist or something permanent. And so we made that into a fragrance. And then we also utilized all of the community connection that we'd built over the years around that fandom as part of the marketing.

15:18And so all of the comments became our performance marketing ads. We like did a lot of like TikToks that were in response to some of the craziest comments that we had gotten about it. And then we also had like, because we had equity in the scent over the years, we used people's like own reviews of what it smells like. So instead of saying it smells like orange blossom and dragon fruit and all of the notes that the average person may not know what they smell like. We would take customer comments like, it smells like I passed out drunk in my pool chair and my pina colada melted. And we would use that as the scent descriptor or smells like you got upgraded to the pineapple suite.

15:51And that became our campaign. It was just like from the horse's mouth of our community. And that's our number one bestselling global skew now. It's 25 % of our business at Sephora and we're a haircare brand and that's a fragrance. And so that is just like one example of, you know, just letting your community be apart from the beginning and pulling that thread through all the way to the end of your marketing. It's so funny. It's like you talk about the brand being such an embodiment of Jen, but having known you for 15 years, it's like just so clearly you also. And you come in with such a strong point of view.

16:26You're hilarious. Like you have personality to spare. And then you come in and your work is to also bring forth the vision of this founder who has a very clear point of view as well. Was this sort of predicated on the two of you just sort of vibing in that point of view being the same? Or how do you put your own creative stamp on something when it is ultimately somebody else's baby? It's a totally a vibe thing to start. We're so lucky that we found each other because I got to carry Jen's vision out and like we got to have a lot of fun doing it. But I also think that being really clear, like what are sort of like the foundational things about Jen and the foundational things about the brand that make it special?

17:06One of them is a sense of humor, looking for people who have a sense of humor. Like I'm not going to say it's a requirement to have a sense of humor to work at Way, but we have a culture code that our employees are bonused on these culture codes that we set. And one of them is we go hard and we go all the way and work and play is the culture code. And it's about bringing like fun and boldness and like an edgy spirit and a little bit of cheekiness to everything that you do, whether it's coming to a meeting and bringing a playful spirit or suggesting ideas that really push the boundaries. And so I think like identifying the things about the founder, about the idea and about this concept, the brand that exists outside all of us and deciding like what personality traits do we all share and finding people with like-minded values and also rewarding them for living them every day is a part of what's made our little like unique sense of humor really shine through that way.

17:58I think it's really amazing to hear about a company where what you're espousing and sort of the identity that you have out to the world is also being mirrored within the company. That seems obvious, but I think we've all been at companies where that's very much not the case. What are some of these other culture codes that you've built into the functioning of the company that keeps it a fun place to be? Another one is curiosity. And so the culture code for that is we ask questions to get the best answers. And it really just like everyone in way is forever in learning mode, not in knowing mode. And again, that behavior links back to how we want to relate to our customers.

18:39Like we never want to assume that five of us locked in a boardroom have the best answer to anything. in today's day and age with social and digital, like you can literally just ask and you can have an answer in 30 seconds from a lot of people who know and love you and who will challenge whatever you do once it's in market. And so curiosity is a big one. Candor is a big culture code and value for us. Our culture code is we keep it real in a way that feels kind. And I think, again, that's mirroring how the brand acts as well. Like we'll be honest with you, but in a way that feels like your best friend who's looking out for you, not someone who's mean-spirited or too cool or who has a lifestyle that you can't achieve or better than.

19:22It's very relatable, honest, and kind. And so those are just a couple. We have five, but that's a huge part of the way culture. This element of curiosity is such an incredibly important one. And also when you step into the CEO role, especially having never done it before, I could imagine that there's a pressure to feel like, oh, I really got to look look like I know what I'm doing? How did you manage that tension? I think by doing the opposite. I think I'm pretty honest with everyone most of the time that I don't ever know what I'm doing. I don't think any CEO that tells you that they know what they're doing is kind of lying because we're all charting a path that's never been done before.

20:03Like the world is changing so rapidly all the time. The way the customer shops is changing all the time. It's like the macro environmental things that are at play. Like none of us really know what we're doing. And if you can't admit that, then you're not going to be able to ask the right questions or probe a little bit when you need more information, or you're going to make people think, you know, that they should always defer to your opinion because you know better. I'm pretty open and honest all the time about the fact that I don't know what I'm doing. Was becoming CEO on your bingo card? I think yes and No.

20:36Like I think deep down I knew that I always would be good at it. I've always been a great leader and I've always been someone to like put my hand up and want to, you know, like volunteer to take the reins of whatever situation that I'm in. But I don't think it's ever like a given or on anyone's bingo card because it's so rare and hard that it actually manifests. But I think after a few years at Way, I kind of knew it would ultimately become my destiny because I had just been involved in the brand at so many different stages and really like embodied all the values of it and shaped its culture and shaped the brand so much that it felt definitely like kismet that it would happen eventually.

21:16Kismet and yet best laid plans. Life never really turns out as we would like it to. You ended up stepping into this CEO role like a couple of months after having your daughter and becoming a mom for the first time, which is just like absolutely bananas. Yeah. Truly, like how did you manage it? And how candid were you being with your team at that time and the people around you about what you were going through managing those priorities? I always bring my full self to work and I can't not do that. Like that's just who I am as a person. And I think that's helped foster a culture at way where other people feel that they can be vulnerable and show up as their best selves.

21:59And so I was very honest throughout the whole process. Like I'm managing a lot right now. I'm dealing with some very big new, a lot of newness in my life. But I think like two key things that you just get thrown into trial by far is number one, as a CEO, you have to be a master of time. You're so busy and you're pulled into so many different directions and no one's a bigger master of time than a mother. And so to do those both at the same time, you know, you become a quick calendar savant on how you're going to manage your day. And then I think the other thing is it's hard as a CEO, like you care so much about the business and the people and it's hard not to bring that home at night.

22:37And you have no choice but to tap into mom mode and be with your child and be fully present when you get home. And I think that was a gift for me to not, you know, be working after hours or constantly thinking about work or getting burnt out. I really get to switch gears when I come home. And I'm grateful for that, that they happened at the same time because I didn't get to know any other version of it. It's true. You have no frame of reference other than the one that you lived. Do you have any tactical tips for people in terms of how to manage or organize their days? I think just make sure you always block out time for thinking and inspiration.

23:14For me, if I don't have clear time on my calendar, I don't have a clear head. And it just doesn't elicit good thinking unless I carve that space. How would you describe like the various chapters of the company and where you think way is right now? It's rare, I think, that someone evolves personally and professionally with each chapter of the business. The people who start you out are very rarely the people who get you to where we are today. And every chapter has required something completely different from the team. I mean, the beginning is completely scrappy. I think it requires the most creativity because you have limited resources and the most to prove in that chapter.

23:53It's a very fun time, the beginning. And then in the middle, you have a little bit of a track record and you're kind of going out and trying to leverage that to get more retailers or more financing or, you know, more brand partnerships or whatever it is. And so it's a lot of leveraging and that kind of middle chapter and then a lot of crazy scale and growth of team. And that's really challenging because you're bringing in all these people in really quickly and you need to get them on board with the mission and the brand DNA, you know, pretty quickly and get them operating. And then the chapter we're in today is like massive global domination, Dr.

24:28Evil chapter. And I'm still figuring this one out because now we've got such global scale and we're kind of in the retail players that we're going to play with. And we're in the countries that we're going to sell in. And now it's about continuing brand momentum and brand interest. Like we're not a challenger brand anymore. We're a champion and we have to stay relevant and top of mind and beloved with customers. And just the complexity of what that requires running a brand in that many different countries and channels all over the world, so many different product categories, all the operational scale.