Too Late to Start? Not for the Founder of This $1 Billion Brand

0:00I wanted to build a company that will be around in 50, maybe 100 years.

0:08Hey everyone, welcome to Shopify Masters in studio here in Los Angeles. I'm Serena Smith. What if one of the world's most popular celebrity chefs discovered your product on Instagram and liked it so much he became your business partner? That is exactly what happened with Hexclat. We were like, we solved that, we solved that, we solved that. So I knew that we had something special. That is just one chapter in a much bigger story. Today, we're talking to Danny Weiner, co-founder and CEO of HexCloud. You've got to lead by example. You've got to be willing to do anything. And you've got to be willing to stay a little longer, work a little harder.

0:45The cookware company bet early on direct-to-consumer, disrupted a sleepy industry with real innovation, and became a global brand topping more than$380 million in revenue. Welcome to the show, Danny. Thank you so much for having me, Serena. What does it conjure in you when you hear that your company is doing$380 million in revenue? Well, that sounds like last year's numbers, but... Odd data. Well, it's a bit surreal. The weird timing of what happened with Hexclad was rather unique because it was like this perfect storm of having a great product, which we do. D to C becoming a way people were really starting to embrace as a shopping platform.

1:30And then when the pandemic hit, being forced that people, if you wanted to shop, that's where you had to buy stuff. And in our space, everybody's home cooking. Sometimes some people for the first time in their lives that they're now turning themselves into a home chef. So we were so buried deep into trying to fulfill orders and run this new business. that we didn't realize really the impact. And I was shocked the first time somebody told me, I was on an airplane, and they're like, oh, I know Hexclad. And I'm like, you do? Wow. It was surprising, yeah. When you have your head down like that, and you're just trying to put one foot in front of the other, and as a founder also, right, you're so often in a state of pretty constant stress and anxiety.

2:19What were those moments for you? like, oh, I'm kind of arriving somewhere, you know? There's several moments of that. Because you go through this stage when you're starting the company where you wake up panicked at 4 a.m. And you're not even sure what you should be doing at 4 a.m., but you're like, I better get up and work. I don't know what I'm going to do, but I'm going to be working because then at least I know I'm putting in 100 % towards my goal. So then I don't have to like somehow in the back of my mind beat myself up that I'm not doing everything. But then when you get this positive feedback from the consumer, it's really, really quite gratifying.

2:58But to me, like the most exciting moment we've had as a company was when the first time I started hiring people, when it went from my co-founder and I, Cole, doing everything, wearing every hat to providing jobs for people. I get excited when we're starting a new employee. I always make sure I go up and find out about them, you know, make sure I know their name, where they live, et cetera. And that still brings me the greatest joy. I think there's something so interesting about that process of bringing other people in, because on the one hand, it's like, oh, great. Like I get to not wear 67 hats and I can deputize people who maybe have skill sets that are even more developed than mine, you know, bring smarter people into the equation to fill in my gaps.

3:44But sometimes there can also be a little bit of difficulty in terms of letting go of the reins when it's your baby. It's still a challenge. You know, it's a little bit like I've never had to send a kid off to college. But there is this like, oh, how are they going to survive without me? And if you're a good CEO, I want to be the dumbest guy in the room. And my ego doesn't want to be. But if I've done a great job, I will be the dummy in the room. And I'm fine with that ultimately because the fact is the company is what's important. The company is what pays all our employees. The company is what produces this amazing product for the public.

4:20So the healthier it is, the more successful it is. Everybody wins then. How do you approach the hiring process and building a team to ensure that you're bringing the right people in and that they can also like continue to carry your vision forward? I'll be frank now, like people reach out for jobs all the time because, you know, we have been so successful the last few years. I think we have a good reputation of being a great place to work and we respect people's talent, their career aspirations, but also like I respect their lives. I walk through the office at 5.30 and I'm like, get out of here.

4:57I yell at everybody, go home. Because I want them to go home and spend time with their families. Yes, I want you to work really, really hard, but I only want you to do it for eight hours. Then I want you to go home and live your life. We were competing for talent in 19, 20. Now really good talent's coming to us. And then we have the benefit of going, do they fit who we are? Because culturally, I want to create an environment where the employee is nurtured both professionally and personally. And we have fun together. Like we do company happy hours. We do these company lunches. And like every single person is at the cool kids' table at lunch.

5:37And we just laugh. And I love when people aren't talking about frying pans then. I like when they're talking about each other's kids or vacations they have coming up. because I think like then people don't want to leave. And that is the thing I'm most proud of. I can count on both hands. So less than 10 people that have either been fired or have quit our company since 2016. Wow. Are there like actual character traits that you would point to in terms of any advice for the business owners out there in terms of what it means to be a good leader and to be able to sort of inspire that enthusiasm and galvanize your team?

6:14you as a leader and it doesn't mean just the founder like some people will throw that in my face because I'll do stuff like people will see me and I'll be in like the men's room and I'll be cleaning the men's room because it's dirty and I know that somebody's going to do it eventually but I'm not above cleaning the men's room I wash the dishes of people left coffee mugs in the sink because they're dirty and somebody's got to do it and maybe if they see me do it somebody else will we'll do it. You got to be able to roll up your sleeves. Like I've had people, a high level executive for us and we did an event.

6:45And I saw one of our junior people had, she had to break down like a hundred boxes from all the product we'd sent for the event. So I went in and I'm like, she goes, Oh no, no, no, no. You don't come, you don't have to do it. I'm like, let's get out of here. Let's do it. And I had somebody senior and I'm watching this person like, you know stand over there and I go well you get over here grab a f***ing knife and cut these boxes down well you know we're gonna be here forever yeah and it was like an aha moment for them and it kind of registered and we joke about it now you know we'll talk about the the boxes I'm like come on there's boxes to be done but that's it like you got to be lead by example you got to be willing to do anything and you got to be willing to stay a little longer work a little harder and And if you do that, then that just trickles down.

7:34So it's really important that you lead by example. You've spoken a lot in the past about the failures that preceded Hexclad and its massive success. Can you talk a little bit about how those failures have actually set you up for being able to be in a state of continued consistent success today? Yeah, yes. I would say this, even if it's like something in your youth. you know when you fail whether it you know you're playing in the little league championship game you lose i remember the bitterness of that and one of two things is going to happen right when you fail you're going to just like kind of sulk and go well wasn't my time or you're going to be like you know god damn what can i do to be a little better the next opportunity that i get and whether it's like as a little kid playing sports or whether it's, you know, a test you take in school or in college.

8:30But when you start businesses, it's okay to fail. It's how you react to that value. And how do you look at it and then go, what is truly my role in this failure? I've said this to my team before. I'm like, people look for the reasons we weren't successful or something underperforming. Somebody will scour the room looking for the answer. And the last place they look is in the mirror. And the fact is that very often we don't want to admit the role we played in a failure. And when Cole and I started the company, our first product failed. I've talked about it. It was a good product. And we misjudged the market.

9:09It was a cold-pressed juicer. And it was at the beginning of the juicing craze. And stupidly, we never thought that, oh, people love juice. They're going to start opening shops all over the place. and I knew when I heard Whole Foods was opening a juice shop in every store and I went to New York and I saw every corner market had a juice shop and I'm like you know this is just a matter of time and and that was the hardest decision I ever had to make was like 5 p.m on a Tuesday we were in the juicer business and 9 a.m the next morning we were not in the juicer business like I had to shut my baby down you know at that time now after it was over once the cookware started getting successful Like all of these people who I trust was like, oh, I always hated that juicer idea.

9:49And I'm like, well, why didn't you say anything? Where was the honesty? Yeah. And they're like, you know, you didn't ask for any hard, you know, criticism or advice on this. And I may have had a difficult conversation with you then. And then I said, you know what? That's something I got to learn. I got to go to people and tell them the truth because you might have a shitty idea and you need some tough love or you have an opportunity to sell them on that idea. And if you do it properly, you're learning how you're going to sell the public that idea and why you're going to make their life better with whatever widget that you're bringing to market.

10:24It's a paradigm shift, really. It feels like you're talking about the distinction between like a fixed mindset and a growth mindset, you know. If you can look at everything as an opportunity to grow and learn, you're going to be setting yourself up on the path for success regardless of what you're doing. Yeah, and that's exactly right. And the key thing right there, it's like looking at everything, even a challenge as an opportunity. It's an opportunity to get better. It's an, I remember trying to fine tune the messaging with Hexclad, you know, in the beginning, it wasn't resonating. Like everybody laughed at me when I went to try to raise money and say, we're going to be a D to C cookware company.

11:02Nobody had ever done that yet. So in 15 and 16, like, you know, we were still fine tuning the product at that point. and I kept getting kind of beat up and kicked to the curb out of these rooms as I met bankers and you know nobody they're like oh cookware's too competitive I'm like this is different this is finally an innovation there's been no innovation since Teflon came out in 1959 and then they're like well how are you gonna get shelf space I'm like I don't want shelf space because we're gonna be the first d2c cookware brand and they're like nobody buys cookware that way thanks for you know thanks for stopping by.

11:37Take a water on your way out. But I kept looking at those as opportunities. And eventually, I was able to take the learnings in those rooms and turn those into some good Facebook ads. And what wasn't resonating with people? But it was probably best that that didn't happen because we had to be scrappy. We had to be scrappy until the pandemic was happening. Yeah. It's like so hard in the moment, but in, in retrospect, you look back and you go, oh, it all happened as it was meant to. And thank God, you know, but in the moment you're like, another, another no. How many no's did you get? You know, I don't remember because they're like, it's hurtful because you, you know, the cook where's my baby and you're going in and somebody's telling me your baby's ugly and sucks.

12:27Yeah. So like, yes, you try to learn from it. And then I try to forget about those people. Like I did run into somebody that their family office was looking for some investments. They'd sold a product and they made a ton of money. And the, say the son was just like very condescending and like almost like I'd wasted their time. And I ran into the guy like maybe a year and a half ago. And I was just like, I guess you missed that one, didn't you? Yeah. How did he respond? He kind of laughed and, you know, and that was it. You know, like they knew, listen, they invest in bad things. They, they miss great opportunities, but they also hit some home runs too.

13:10So he, he got, you know, he got it. But you know, there's no price for decency. Yeah. You know, the thing is people are risking livelihoods. They're risking their future in a way. We need human decency. I appreciate when people are taking risks. And the more willingness they are to let me ask hard questions of them, I think they'll benefit from it. Not just me, anyone. But I always handle it in a way that respects the fact that they're taking a chance. And not everybody does that. And it should be applauded. Yeah. It's insanely courageous. Yeah. And there are a lot of ways to be courageous in life, but it's very particular to put yourself out there in this way.

13:59It absolutely is. And the thing is, I didn't become successful till later on. And here's the thing. It's almost like when a 24-year-old tries to raise money from friends and family, loses their money, and he's applauded for taking a chance. And he might be successful in the next one or the next one. when a 52 year old takes a risk, they go like, what a dummy. What, you know, what's he thinking? He's got kids. Yeah. You know, he's, it's past, he's past his prime. And, and the fact is, I think it should all be applauded because it doesn't matter how old you are. Good idea is a good idea. And we shouldn't make somebody feel foolish or irresponsible for taking a chance.

14:44I'm not saying like spend your kids college tuition money on it, but, you know, we should no longer say one is acceptable and one isn't. Well, and I think also there's another thing that it feels like you're pointing toward, which is that there's so much value placed on like making it young, having your success at a young age, making your money young. But I do think that there's also an argument to be made that there's like great value and utility in hitting it a little bit later on in life. You've built character. You have life experience. You've built more resilience, right? Like, what are the things that you feel like, you know, in your 50s actually set you up better?

15:26You know, this might be the most important question that you're asking for a lot of young viewers or listeners. Because when I was a kid, it was like, I was so happy to just like be able to sit at the table while my uncles played cards. You weren't supposed to talk, you know. I'm not saying I'm smarter than a 25-year-old, but I'm guaranteeing I'm wiser. And you can learn from my wisdom because all the mistakes you're going to make from 25 to 40, I made them. And if you listen to me, maybe you'll make one fewer mistakes. And that's really it. I love that the mix of having people of different ages working together.

16:08because I love that there's no way that I can manage our tech stack and know what everything does perfectly and how things integrate and how they're enhancing each other. But I got a super smart 27-year-old who's telling me how that happens. But on the other end, I know how to market across ages and create a compelling story that's going to make somebody want to enjoy our products. I can also develop a product. They can't do that yet. So we enhance each other. I believe that this life experience and wisdom is undervalued by many companies. And when I see companies failing and I see a 29-year-old CEO, you are not qualified to be a CEO.

16:52You're just not. Because you have to inspire, lead. You need to take all the failures of a lifetime to be able to run a company properly. I now, could you be 35? Could you be 40? Yeah, absolutely. I would always say that person, even if he's a founder, he should find a strong, strong leader and learn from that person. So he's ready to take over. Take a guy who's 50 who wants to retire in the next six, seven years, learn everything from, and then you become like an even better CEO. Oh my God. Yeah. There's so much power in mentorship and also just a sort of humility and a willingness to say, like, I actually don't know, or I don't know enough, or I don't know everything.

17:34And yeah, it can be hard because I think sometimes it's like, you know, you've got young, precocious, plucky, incredibly smart people who want to start something of their own. And it can be really difficult. It can feel even maybe even if there's the internal desire to want to learn from somebody who's older, wiser, knows better. I think there sometimes can be a fear that like it's going to reveal some kind of weakness, you know, that then will make them look like they're not fit to lead. It does feel like a sort of shift that has to happen, you know, that like, it's okay. It's okay. It's okay to ask for help.

18:09Yeah. It's okay to ask questions. It really is. There's no stupid question, even when it is stupid. Now, if you got to ask the same thing 10 times to me, I'm going to get frustrated, but ask questions, ask for help. I am certainly not a finished product right now as a CEO, We should be. Exactly. So if you're younger, again, look at everything as an opportunity, a learning opportunity to get better, become a better manager, to become a better visionary, and to be, the most important thing, a better communicator. You were talking about how some of those early no's from investors turned into growth opportunities and learning opportunities that you then were able to parlay into Facebook ads.

18:51Can you talk about what that trajectory was? what you were taking from those moments and how it served you? Well, you know, sometimes you think, like you look at a product having certain value props about it, right? And sometimes you can't see the forest through the trees that you don't, what you think is like the key value prop really isn't. And I remember people upset that I go, we built this product so well for a frying pan, we're going to give it a lifetime warranty because we've tested it, it holds up. And they're like, that's terrible. We want to keep, you know, you want the iPhone. You want to be, you want planned obsolescence, you know?

19:31And I'm like, well, that's not really what I want to do. What I want is like, I'll sell them one frying pan and they love it. So they'll buy a second frying pan and then they'll buy our knives. I remember what was key was one thing was being able to convince people that that strategy was better than trying to sell them the same frying pan over and over and over again. And ultimately what that came down to is what's your long-term goal? I often say big picture, little picture stuff. And a lot of people want to focus on the little picture, but it doesn't always serve the big picture. So the big picture started as what do you want to be?

20:07I want to be a legacy brand. I wanted to build a company that will be around in 50, maybe a hundred years. I didn't want to build something, you know, burn through cash, just stimulate growth and try to exit. And there are cookware companies, I think that that's their strategy based on the quality of the product and the way that they handle it. They're always raising money. And so for us, I work backwards from that goal, which is we're going to be with you on a journey for your lifetime. I didn't want to be Apple. I wanted to be Sony of 1985, where my dad didn't have to do any research. He just went to the store and he's like, where's the Sony stuff?

20:49Because they made great stuff. They really good warranties, really good customer service. That's what he wants. So like, I want people to go, oh, we don't need to, you know, read Wirecutter and read the review. We just know HexCloud makes great stuff. Go to hexcloud.com. Oh, they got a cutting board. I'm looking for a cutting board, add to cart. And, you know, so that's really what I wanted. And in a world where it's just like an endless onslaught of products and options being thrown at us, which like there's a great privilege around that also, you know, but it can be overwhelming. It's also like as a consumer, what a relief to just say, oh, I can trust this.

21:32And then you come out with something new and you say, well, I can probably trust that also. Yeah. And that's like that's the way it should be. That's the way it used to be. Like everything's coming around. like it does come full circle in a way and i think it's great that consumers care about who they're buying from and i really think we owe that to the younger millennials and gen z like they care more about who they're buying from than maybe our parents did our parents i want a deal i want i want it on sale my dad would say i mean he still tells me he's like oh you know i buy those little pods for the coffee.

22:08He goes, I can save 10 cents if I drive across town. I'm like, dad. You're spending more than that in gas. Yeah, you're gas. But it's a different generation, so he doesn't really care about that stuff. He cares about the 10 cents, and that is important. But if you only save 5 cents, but you buy from somebody who has a personal and a brand ethos that aligns with yours as the consumer, then who do you want to buy from, right? Can you tell me a little bit about the thought process in terms of the materials that go into your pans? You know, what we've always strived to do is use the best possible ingredients, whether it's the steel, the quality of our stay cool handle, and including our Terabon coating, which is the most durable coating of its type.

22:56It's a ceramic based nonstick that actually lasts for years, which is why it's the first ceramic based nonstick that we could give a lifetime warranty to. Um, we spent almost seven years developing it till it was good enough. So people can be confident that it's safe. And more importantly, they can be confident that they're not going to be having to go to the store every year to buy the pan over and over and over again. Instead of 400 degrees of heat, it's, it's safe up to 900 degrees, which you would never cook at. But the fact is that means it's highly, highly unlikely you're going to damage it from overheat.

23:35We also wanted to make it free from forever chemicals. This is kind of a very like trendy subject right now about PFAS chemicals and whether it's pans or clothing, you know, it's weird how we get caught on one thing because a lot of cookware companies have gotten a lot of heat about using these without a lot of understanding, which is probably this furniture, the rugs, they all have PFAS. And actually that's the way it's been explained to me by our engineers is that's probably more likely to be ingested when you wash your clothes. If they have them on them, it gets into the water, gets into your water supply.

24:15You know, there's a lot of challenges there, but we always said, well, if we can make it better and give people comfort, let's do that. Now, I also don't want to beat you over the head with it. To be honest, when I read the science, you know, what the EPA and the FDA say about it, it seems like most of these coatings that people have been using since they were little kids are safe. I don't want to scare people. That's not my job. I just want to promote our product as a great product. So like the first thing doesn't have to be free from forever chemicals, because that's not important to everyone.

24:47It is to a lot of people. I always want to promote value and that like this is built to last. And I feel our product is highly sustainable. It's sustainable through durability, though. That's the best type. You don't have to buy it over and over again. So it's nice if it doesn't end up in a landfill. Right. After a couple of years. Yeah. You were talking about wanting to create a legacy brand, something that can really stand the test of time and people can have some faith in the quality of what they're buying, they can trust. With the genesis of Hexclad, like, were you looking to fill a hole in the market and you knew what that hole was?

25:26Or was it more happenstance that you found something and thought, wow, this is lightning in a bottle? A little of both, probably more the second. I had worked for a cookware company before we started Hexclad. In fact, actually, I didn't want to be in cookware anymore. That's why we started a juicer company. But I knew the pain points the consumer had because I'd done it for years. and as a frustrated maybe chef, like I never wanted to work in a restaurant so hard. Like chefs have to be a little insane to put up with it. I'm a foodie. My grandmother was the first female head chef in Buffalo, New York in the 50s.

26:01Oh my God, amazing. Yeah, and it's, all my cousins are in the restaurant business. So I always loved it, but I didn't want to be behind the hot stove unless I'm doing it for friends and family at my house. It's like your hospitality, like adjacent. Adjacent, yeah. You're like close enough to really respect it, but you're like, I don't want to be in the kitchen for 14 hours. Thank you. Exactly. And so what that gave me though, was an interest to kind of be touching it. So I got to talk to chefs and work with them and eat great meals. And, but I did know what people complained about. So I always kept like my finger on the pulse of what was going on in the cookware market.