Turning Followers into Retailers: Clubhouse Skin’s Social-First Strategy

0:00Take advantage of when you are still a small company and you can still talk directly to your customers. Because if all goes according to plan, you're not going to be able to do that forever. Hey, everyone. Welcome to Shopify Masters, your companion for starting and building a business. I'm your host, Shuang Esther Shan. Our guest today didn't see himself reflected in the men's skincare aisle. So he set out to create something better. With Clubhouse Skin, founder Ben Atwood is building a design-led brand that challenges outdated stereotypes and brings a fresh, thoughtful take to the category. From bootstrapping with his own savings to landing in cult favorite retail stores through TikTok, Ben's journey is anything but typical, and it's just getting started.

0:47Ben's here to chat all about product innovation, design, and building in public. Welcome to the show, Ben. Thank you very much. What an intro. Damn. Well, it is your life, your journey. How incredible. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. So, well, I have to start things off in a little bit of a dreary place, the men's skincare aisle. You were a little frustrated. There was something you wanted to change. What was that? Yeah, I mean, if you managed to find the men's skincare aisle in the first place, then you're off to a pretty good start. It tends to be shunned into the corner of the room. And when you do find it and you take a look at the brands that are on offer, you'll start to notice a lot of similarities between the brands.

1:31And you'll probably see that they all tend to rely on this really outdated stereotype, masculine stereotype. So you're going to start to see they're all in like all black packaging and have some hyper-masculine name. And there's probably an illustration of a man with a big beard on there somewhere. Like they all seem to follow the same playbook. um also assuming that men are lazy when it comes to their skin and um that all we want is a three in one solution and as a customer standing in that aisle I just didn't feel like any of the brands really resonated with me and men have evolved in how they view their self-care so I felt like the category also deserved to have an evolution as well and it's interesting because you have this really extensive experience in design and coincidentally you worked with a lot of big names in consumer packaged goods.

2:29So with your experience in the market what did you want to do with your own brand? So I've been a designer for about 12 years now and I started in New Zealand as an art worker and then ended up kind of moving up through the ranks to eventually being an art director and I moved to London about four years ago and found myself working at a creative agency in Covent Garden. And purely by chance, one of our main clients was one of the biggest skincare brands in the world. And I was the lead creative on most of their campaigns over the course of two and a half years. And while they were extremely formative years for me that I didn't realize at the time because I got to know two things really well.

3:13One of them being the skincare industry and the products and the ingredients and what they do to your skin, but also an inside look into how those big brands think and how they launch products and what matters to them, which was really interesting. So when you're thinking about Clubhouse Skin and you're trying to build something from scratch, what were the first few things you tackled? From day one, I always knew I wasn't going to be the guy in the lab mixing up the ingredients. So I partnered with a lab, you know, from day one and working with a lab to create skincare products is very similar to the process of when you hire a designer or an agency.

3:56So there's this briefing process that you go through where you get to explain to them exactly what you want the products to be or what you want them to feel like on the skin, how you want them to smell, and the hero ingredients or ingredients that you didn't want to use. So step one was really going through this process of iterating and creating samples and testing and testing for months until we really figured out what we felt like were the perfect products. And at the same time as all of that's going on, you have to figure out your packaging at the same time, which is easily one of the most difficult and expensive things because you're dealing with so many different options that you almost get decision fatigue.

4:42You need to find manufacturers that can work within your budgets pretty early. So for a lot of founders, that process is quite intimidating. You're approaching formula developers, you're approaching factories who are making your package. What's your advice there when you have to advocate for yourself and basically push for those ideas and go through a little bit of a negotiation through that process? That's a good question. That was pretty tough for us at the beginning, but I feel like what I did early on, which really helped me communicate the brand to all of these different vendors was I put together a pitch deck early.

5:21So I wasn't just emailing packaging suppliers and labs out of the blue and hoping that they would just assume that it's going to work because they have so much business coming through already that to be honest taking a risk on a startup oftentimes doesn't make sense for them so I had to really convince them early on and I put together this deck where I described the vision for the brand and I'd already designed the products and described exactly what I wanted them to be and I feel like when they have that document like that that shows them the big picture then it's easier for them to get bought in and they're more willing to take a risk on a brand that actually doesn't exist yet.

6:00It shows that you have conviction on where the brand is going and also a dedication and commitment to what you want the brand to be as well and I know that working with that formulator initially it was a great success you sold out and then you were faced with a big hurdle and a big challenge challenge, something quite scary for a lot of founders. Tell us about that experience. Yeah. Yeah. That was a tough, tough time at the beginning. So let me set the scene a little bit. I live in London and we don't have a lot of space in this city at all. And I definitely didn't have enough space in my apartment to be storing thousands of moisturizers.

6:42So after working on Clubhouse Skin for a few months. We were coming up to our launch date and I placed a purchase order with that manufacturer. And it was under the agreement that they were going to send me 50 % of my stock to me and they were going to keep the other 50 % at their warehouse because I just didn't have enough space to keep it there. So we get around to launch day and it goes way better than I ever thought it would. We're selling like crazy. I'm over the moon, couldn't be happier, but we are getting through far more product than I thought we would. So I get on the phone to that manufacturer and I say like, hey, can you just send me the rest of it?

7:22Like I'm going to need it and I don't want to have any delays for customers. And they're like, yeah, yeah, no worries. Little did I know at that time, that was the beginning of like the longest nine months of my life, I think. because what followed that was just a series of excuses as to why they couldn't deliver my product to me. So they were overseas or they sent it to the wrong address and it was returned damaged and they had to refill it. And this went on for weeks. And I'm a very trusting guy, so I believed what they were saying, but it went on for quite some time. And long story short, I ended up doing some research online and found out that I wasn't the only business that was in this situation with this manufacturer.

8:09And they had a bit of a track record of taking purchase orders from companies like mine and then delivering part of the order and disappearing with the rest of the money. So we never ended up getting our hands on the rest of our product. And we ended up selling out within a couple of weeks, which was a pretty scary situation to be in when you consider the fact that I had literally invested every dollar to my name into the business and I had put in every single spare hour that I had over the last year to get to that point and we launch and it goes great and then we're suddenly faced with the situation that could end it all right before we started um so I knew that we wanted to go through the legal system to try and get what we could back but I also knew that that wasn't going to solve the immediate issue that we had on our hands which was that we didn't have any product to sell so I had an option well two options which was either roll over and let the business die right there and then or it was come up with all of the startup costs for a second time and rebuild from scratch and get new formulas and new packaging and an entirely new supply chain which at the time was super daunting but it also felt like I didn't have any other option so it had to be done but I do think in hindsight I genuinely believe that it was a blessing in disguise because we had launched and we had feedback and we had customers and even though we were only launched for a few weeks I had feedback that I wanted to change and like tweaks to the packaging and to the formulas and because I had to rebuild from scratch I had an opportunity to do all of that earlier than I would have so when we relaunched our products and our brand was like head and shoulders above what it was during our first launch so it ended up working in our favor I think yeah yeah well Well, it's good to feel that way right now when you're reflecting.

10:18But I think when that happens, it's any founder's worst nightmare. And to your point, a lot of people would have just stopped and went on to something else, maybe leave entrepreneurship. And this is really tough because for you, you're bootstrapping the whole thing. This is your life savings that you've invested. What is the driving force that kind of made you want to give this a go a second time? I think it was because from the beginning, I had been building in public the entire way through and documenting the entire journey on TikTok and Instagram. And over that course of 12 months, I had developed this audience of people that genuinely cared about what I was doing, or at least I thought they did.

11:01And when I launched, they ended up being customers. And so when all of this happened, I knew that if I was able to get the business back on its feet, I would at least have these people here waiting to support and to buy again. And I knew that the market wanted the product because it had been proven. So that made the decision and the driving force very easy to get back on my feet. Yeah. I feel like there's almost also a sense of accountability because there's people waiting for products to be back in stock. They're waiting for the brand to come back. So, yeah. Also, building in public is such a intimidating front as well.

11:41Not only are you talking with formulators, factories and different partners, you're also talking to an audience. And that's also quite intimidating. But I think it's a necessary step for building a business right now. What's your advice for getting comfortable to share your progress to the public? Yeah, I think that building in public is like you have to do it nowadays. There's no question about it. And it's really quite a simple process as well because people love to overcomplicate these things. But I think really the strategy is just document what you're already doing and be transparent and vulnerable about what goes into building the brand.

12:28because it humanizes the brand in a way that like the big guys wish that they could do and they can't. So take advantage of when you are still a small company and you can still talk directly to your customers because like if all goes according to plan, you're not going to be able to do that forever. So, you know, build that community early. And I've spoken to quite a few business owners about this and I've recommended it to them. and the consistent response is something along the lines of like oh I could never put myself out there like that because I'm gonna I'm gonna feel like I'm cringe on the internet or something which is so sad to hear because uh like I I am a really introverted guy so the idea of putting a video of myself out on the internet is terrifying but as soon as you come to terms with the fact that everyone starts off a little bit cringe and that's fine, the better.

13:26Like my first 50 videos were cringe and then they start getting a little less cringe and then it's okay. But I wish that people would be able to get past that mental block because I know how much impact it could have on their business. Like I'll be cringe on the internet all day, every day, if it means I keep selling products. Yeah. I mean, as an independent founder, who's running this all bootstrapped. This is like the greatest avenue because you don't have the ad budget of a giant CPG behind you. So this is what's going to set you apart and also reach so many different customers. So talking about bootstrap, you also work full time and you're using a lot of your savings to invest in this business.

14:11I think this is actually kind of the story a lot of our listeners have as well. They're building things. They're trying to make their dreams come true while they're working. What's your advice for that process where you have a full-time job and you're trying to bootstrap and build on this idea? Yeah, I think that there's no real like hack or easy way out at the start. I think the reality is if you're trying to build a business and work a full-time job and stay on top of relationships and stay in shape, you have no choice but to make some sacrifices of where you spend your time because you only have like 24 hours a day and you have to be really disciplined with it.

14:54and unfortunately I wish I had like a magic pill to say just do this and then you can balance it perfectly but like when my friends are at the pub or have gone away for a weekend I'm at home working and that's just the reality of starting out I think but hopefully with enough time you know you can start to bring in support and it won't be that way but while the business is still young, I think you just have to remind yourself why you're doing it. And hopefully the people around you will recognize that and support it along the way. Yeah, it definitely takes a lot of discipline. And not to mention, you're also doing all of this documenting.

15:39So I feel like there's multiple layers. There's the day job, there's running the business, there's also sharing about the business in public. At the top, you mentioned, You built this beautiful deck and you were sharing it with formulators and manufacturing partners, which I think often it's easier to distill all of the ideas you have in a deck. But when you're trying to make a TikTok or a 60-second video and you're trying to tell potential customers what you're trying to build, that's quite different. So how did you distill all the things you were trying to do for Clubhouse into shorter form content?

16:15it's really just a matter of documenting what you're already doing I don't really believe in overthinking or over engineering your social content like every social guru will tell you to like do x or y and like um these hacks to uh go viral or whatever but I I mean I definitely tried all that stuff early on. But I think really the best strategy is just documenting what you're already doing. Because people are curious about it. They want to know what you're doing. And it doesn't always have to be this flashy moment either. When I launched, I filmed myself going to the post office. Like that's so mundane, you know?

17:01Or arranging a delivery driver or packing orders. These are not flashy moments at all, but people, they want to be a fly on the wall for these type of things. So yeah, just keep it simple. And it's very realistic. That's exactly what happens when you have to run a business and when you get an order. Because skincare is so saturated and there's so many new indie brands coming up as well, how do you differentiate or how do you stand out when there's new competition that's just coming up every single day? Yeah, I think you need to have a pretty clear point of view. You don't just want to enter the market as another brand with no angle.

17:47I think you need to decide what is the key message that you're trying to convey to the customers and what's your unique point of view. The core message is really an evolution of men's skincare. We aren't lazy when it comes to skin. We don't want cheap synthetic ingredients. We want natural ingredients and we're okay with having a multi-step routine if it works. So it's taking where the brands that are typically marketed towards women, which are so like quality and genuinely good formulas, is trying to take a bit of that world into men's skincare. Of course, like I think it's so interesting because usually within the men's skincare category, it's often one step, one product that's hidden away.

18:34And I think Clubhouse is just trying to do the inverse of that. So how are you doing that in all of the elements that you're touching on, whether it's web, social or otherwise? Yeah, I think most of my decisions can be tied back to, will it make Clubhouse Skin a brand that I would want to own? So I designed it in a way that like if I was a consumer, then I would want to buy that and then have it on display in my bathroom or side table or something like that. So I just design and create the brand based on what I would want. And that's basically the strategy that goes into all of that. Yeah. I mean, you have this design background and a lot of the listeners probably are struggling with that department a little bit.

19:21When they're starting from scratch, building a new brand, what's your advice on design to them? Yeah. So I have two thoughts here, which are going to sound like they're contradicting each other, but I promise they won't. I've been hearing a bit of chatter on mostly on business podcasts saying that when you're starting out, design is a luxury and it doesn't matter that much. I couldn't disagree more. I feel like design is one of the main things that have unlocked doors for us that otherwise would have remained completely closed. A well-designed website is going to instill trust in customers or well-designed packaging is going to stand out on the shelf.

20:05A well-designed pitch deck is going to get the attention of investors or labs or whoever else. So while I feel like the opinion at the moment is that design is a luxury. I couldn't disagree more. I feel like as a startup, you're looking for any excuse you can to stand out. And for us, just having good design has, you know, done a lot of good for us. The second point, and I think my design friends are going to hate that I'm saying this, but when it comes to building a brand, a logo is not that important. Like it's really not that important often i will see people spend thousands of pounds on a logo and then consider that their branding done but it's not how it works at all so your brand is the entire universe around it so like what your social media looks like what your email templates look like your tone of voice how you communicate consistent colors and typography and a logo is a small part of that and it's still important but people put way too much weight behind it so I would say that when people are starting out design is going to help you a lot if you have good design but reprioritize your design budget away from just a logo and towards the entire universe of whatever your brand is.

21:36I think those two truths can be held at the same time because I think a lot of the times we overthink the logo and we don't pay enough attention to all of those other elements that needs that design touch. So I can see that for sure. Yeah. I have to talk about the fact that, you know, building in public also brings in a lot of advantages. It helped you unlock many doors into retail. So yeah, talk to us about just getting the support of your community and opening some doors for you. Yeah. Are you familiar with the store Earl of East? I was not, but once I looked into it, I was like, this is the perfect match.

22:15Yeah. Yeah. Right. So they're a chain of stores. I want to say they have five stores in London and they, I've always loved Earl of East and I've wanted to get Clubhouse Skin in Earl of East since before we launched because I knew it was a perfect fit but they're mostly known for just having a really nice selection of homeware and lifestyle products and some skincare and beauty products as well and I wanted so badly to get in there but I didn't want to go through the same process as everyone else of emailing the founders with a pitch deck and trying to like convince them that they should stalk us that didn't feel like a very efficient process to me, especially when we were so young.

22:58So my benefit was that I did have an audience behind me. So I put out this video titled, I think it was helped me get my brand into Earl of East. And it was like a call to arms for my community saying, everyone go and tag Earl of East and tell them that you guys need a stock Clubhouse Skin. And the result was Earl of East got tagged like hundreds of times and it was getting sent to the founders directly. And within 24 hours, I was on a call with the founders of Elle of East and they placed a purchase order. And now we're stocked in all of their stores over London. So like that wouldn't have happened had I not built in public and built that community over time.

23:41There was no way. Yeah. How magical, right? Like social media for good. Well, I'm manifesting Dover Street Market it for you because I think that's the next great unlock. You believe I am in their emails right now, but I haven't cracked them yet. Okay. Hopefully this conversation, some more social posts from you will get that unlock. So it's been a couple of years since launching. You're still managing so much on your own. You're still bootstrapping the journey. Now, looking back, what's your advice for someone who wants to do the same and stay independent and be able to control their financial runway.

24:19Yeah, you have to be very lean. You have to keep costs down and find creative ways to not blow through all of your money immediately. Nice. And then now that you've had great success to unlock some retail partnerships and you've had found a new better formulator and manufacturing partner, what are some of the new goals that you want to accomplish. I want to keep building a brand that I'm going to be proud to own. And I want to approach it in a similar way to what Aesop did. Are you familiar with how Aesop kind of entered the market? Yeah. So they partnered with a lot of boutique hotels and really cool restaurants to be stocked in their bathrooms.

25:01And, you know, there's a lot of brand association. Like if you go to a cool restaurant and you see Aesop in the bathroom, you're going to think, oh, this must be a cool brand as well. So I want to approach it in a similar way, but I want to do it through fashion and design. So from day one, fashion and design have obviously been such a big part of the brand. And like, for example, we're stocked in a store called Demand Retro in Paris, and they're a really cool store, but they're mostly known for fashion, like vintage high-end fashion pieces, like some of the coolest brands. And their customers are not going into that store to buy skincare, really, even though we're stocked in there.

25:47So it's not a huge revenue driver for us, but what it does do is has Clubhouse Skin rubbing shoulders with some of the most relevant brands at the moment. And partnering with retailers like that is so much more exciting to me than the idea of getting into some high street skincare retailer so I want to keep partnering with you know stores like that um I also really do you know who Larry June is no okay uh I really want to partner with Larry June okay he's a rapper okay and he raps about like eating organic food and traveling Europe and buying imported couches and stuff like that. And I just love it.

26:33Like every video I post on social is probably edited to a Larry June track. Yes. So there's so much brand alignment there. And I just think that the juxtaposition between a rapper and a skincare brand could be so interesting. And if I was able to partner with him in the future, then I think we could do something really cool. So if Larry June is listening, DM me. Nice. These are exciting avenues, and I feel like you're really thinking about this brand differently. I'm so excited to see Clubhouse Skin pop up in all sorts of different retails and different spaces. Well, thank you so much for being here, Ben.

27:15Thank you very much. that's Ben Adwood founder of Clubhouse Skin our show is produced by Alicia Clark and Gogo Zoger our engineers are Miku Betlam and Matt Schwartz special thanks to the team at Cube to help with this recording and I'm your host Shuang Esther Shan we are here every Tuesday and Thursday wherever you get your podcasts and be sure to check out Shopify Masters on YouTube for video episodes until next time thank you so much for tuning in Thank you.