What 'Community First' Really Means for a DTC Company

0:00Building all these emotional connections in person, that doesn't pay off immediately. That requires a lot of patience. And so building an iconic brand is about adding value over and over and over again and emotionally connecting with people and not selling them.

0:19Hey, what's going on? I'm Benjamin Gottlieb and this is Shopify on Location, coming to you this week from our offices in New York. If you can't find it here, there's a good chance you can't find it anywhere. Art, food, even a running club. They populate just about every neighborhood, from Brooklyn to Harlem and everywhere in between. Bandit Running is a company born out of one of these communities. It makes athletic gear and streetwear and creates content about the folks that live that lifestyle. Nick and Tim West are brothers and founders of Bandit Running. They made a trek this morning in the rain from Brooklyn to talk about building and marketing a community-based brand.

1:00Fellas, what a treat. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having us. Yeah, nice to be here. Ah, so great to have you. First of all, I have to be real. If I'm running, it's usually after a ball, not just for fun. So I have to ask, what is the running culture like in New York for those of us who aren't in it? It's very inclusive. Anyone can be a part of it. there's a lot of first-timers. There's a lot of experienced runners. And like you said, there's everything in between. It's a full spectrum. It's a very positive community, first and foremost, super supportive. There's some competition at the higher level, which is super fun to watch, but it's very welcoming.

1:38This is the running club capital of the country, so to speak. It's not the world, right? Pretty much. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I would say that. So what makes New York the proper place for something like that? well New York is home to the largest marathon the largest half marathon one of the best mile races in the country if not the world most runners most run clubs and New York is and is not a very runnable city and it's a great way to meet different people and it's just it's super social but it's also a great workout and it's just it's got all these elements of something that's very fun to be a part of.

2:20And New York is just super vibrant and very diverse and rich with culture and history. And a lot of that goes back to the sport of running. And it's just, it's kind of always been that way.

2:40Now, the origin story of Bandon is super interesting because it's almost like the community was more important. It came first, and then the brand and the products came later. Tim, tell me a little bit about that original idea. Yeah, so I was a member of Brooklyn Track Club, a community that meets up Tuesday nights. For me, they also have morning practices and Saturday long runs, but I would go to the Tuesday night practices, had a bunch of friends, and it was very reminiscent of Nick and I's earlier days in Jersey and skateboard communities and surf communities and music communities. And to be a part of the running community was just very natural.

3:20And during COVID, I wanted to work on a side project for something that I was super passionate about. So back in like October, 2020, right? That's exactly, that's when we launched. I started ideating earlier in the summer, but there was this big influx of running happening during COVID. It was a way to be socially distant, but around people. It's a cardiovascular activity. So people wanted to make sure that they were taking care of that part of their lives. And that's kind of where it all started was just on the track Tuesday nights, very naturally within this community and it all started around one product, which I'm sure we'll get into.

4:03But, you know, for Nick and I, we loved our favorite brands were ones that were just built out of community, whether it was skateboard brands or surf brands. Usually those were just generated out of groups of friends who were doing an activity that decided, hey, we should we should brand this thing. Right. And that's kind of how it happened for me. And Nick, during this early installment of Bandit, were you showing up at the track and running on Tuesdays? No, I had actually, so I had one daughter at home planning on having a second daughter. I was living in Williamsburg at the time, a tennis ball throw away from Tim.

4:40Like the US Open reference there. Yeah, exactly. The walls closed in, we moved out to New Jersey and I was really jealous because Tim just had started getting very deeply embedded in the running community. I actually flew during the pandemic out to my in-laws place in Nashville. And I started, you know, I was seeing on social media, him and his friends in this community. And I really started picking up my running routine during the pandemic, but away from, from New York city. And, and that's the thing about like these run club scenes. You don't have to like be in it to be super inspired by it.

5:13And that's what we've tried to do with the brand is like, you talked about how we do content. It's like, we're at the Berlin marathon. on the majority of our community isn't there, but we can tell stories that inspire from really anywhere. And that's kind of part of this, the secret sauce of the brand, but no, I was, I was not at the track. I'm not a performance runner. I'm a runner more for like mental health and sanity and, and the brand represents really that full spectrum. So it's nice because we have a lot of people who work for Bandit who X D one runners, pro runners at Nike down to me who it's part of my identity.

5:46It's not my entire identity though. So that's also been good just to have that diversity of perspective within the brand from the early days. It's really interesting. I think we use this phrase community building or a community-based brand. It's really vague. You know, it's like, what does that mean? What is community? How can someone who's listening to this podcast take that learning and use it for their own company? Maybe I'll ask you, Nick, I mean, what is community in the context of a company? Yeah, it's a really good question. And it's something that we talked about a lot in the first. So Tim and I jumped from our full-time jobs.

6:24And for the first three months that we were working together, we were really focused on the mission, vision, values. And then our experience worked. We both worked at Jet.com together. I launched a baby food company and experienced really like this massive kind of seismic shift in the world of like paid acquisition, which is how a lot of like the D2C 1.0 companies were built, which is like chasing new customers, tweaking your creative and just getting better and better on Instagram and Google and Facebook. Right, kind of finding the customers after you've got the thing you want to sell. Right, exactly.

6:57And so we really sat down and put the learnings of the first part of our careers down on paper in terms of what's working and what's not working and created what we think is like really a next generation playbook for building alongside a community. And a lot of DTC brands, it's like we joke about like you have a DTC toaster brand, like, and you're saying you have a community. It's like nobody's waking up and thinking about toasters. And so community building... I hate my toaster. Never works, always burns the toast, right? Yeah, yeah. The community, it needs to exist in and of itself. There's a lot of communities, be it on Reddit or in person in the running world.

7:36And it's more tapping into that and figuring out how you can build alongside those people and not trying to cultivate your own thing because this ecosystem is global. Like what exists in New York is now in Berlin and Copenhagen. And so community building for us is about empowering and then also inspiring more participation and passion in the sport from a brand building perspective.

8:10And so if, you know, we're out there telling stories at Berlin Marathon, our goal is to then connect with somebody in person who's doing the New York City Marathon. And so it's really about tapping into the different communities and making their experience better and not necessarily saying we are the community. The community is a lot bigger than Bandit, but how can we lift up that community? And Tim, it doesn't matter where the community is, right? These are in-person interactions, but also there's a virtual and online community as well, right? It's one community. Yeah, that's exactly right. And I gravitate a lot towards the in-person community.

8:49We love our in-person events. The most fun is meeting our community. But the great thing is that there's built-in experiences happening around the world for running that we can tap into, whether it's showing up at an international race or putting on a long run or making our own run in a different city or supporting a club that exists that has one of their annual events. That's really fun and could use some support to elevate it and amplify it and make it, you know, everything that they hope to make it. So the in-person stuff is really fun. And then, you know, virtually there's no limits to how many people you can reach.

9:28And And there's a lot of people who are not in cities and densely populated areas with tons of communities that are able to tap in in different ways, whether it's just like engaging with people they meet online, which we see happen all the time, which is amazing. And finally getting to meet up with them in real life when they cross paths at a marathon. So that's one of the really great things about running is it just fosters these connections. Fosters these connections. You have built this very powerful, engaged community, but we're still somewhat talking about it in the abstract, right? Like, okay, so you mentioned this idea of the playbook.

10:05Yeah, let's build a community first. That's a more sustainable way, more successful way to have a brand and a business. But let's, can we go back to the origin, right? So Tim, you're on the track, it's COVID. You're running around, you're a big Nike guy, right? But there was something about what you were wearing that wasn't resonating with you, it wasn't working. And so you did something about it. yeah i mean i got more and more into ultra running super long distances i did a 50 miler and training for these races i just came across a problem with my socks where i was i was just getting you know grandpa foot puddles of sweat just poking holes they just weren't supporting me so me walking here this morning for the interview exactly exactly

10:53I ended up seeking an alternative and I'm a brand guy. I love something that resonates with me and I really appreciate things that make a brand special. And so it's a balance, but for me, brand and product, they need to both work together and both be special.

11:20so you mean the actual marketing of the product or what the brand stands for that's an interesting question i think there's so much that goes into what a brand is right it's hard to put a pin on it um or my thumb on it but um just the overall brand i would say just for so we don't spend the next hour on on what i think about you know makes a great brand but But long story short, couldn't find any brands that really resonated with me. Nothing felt New York City to me. Nothing felt sort of how a reflection of my experience running. And so I decided to create a sock and center the brand around the community that I was running with on a daily basis.

12:11And I promised myself two things when I started. was I was never going to push the product on anyone, never really ask anyone to wear it, or, you know, bring it up at practice. And I wasn't going to take out a paid ad for the first year. It's just not how I wanted people to discover the brand. I wanted them to like it. And my thinking was, if it's a good thing, then it'll work itself out. And over the course of the year, I held those two things true. And sure enough, that line of thinking and that philosophy really resonates with people in New York City specifically, who are constantly advertised to or pushed products on, and really have more of an appetite for things that are a little bit more independent and not as as pushy.

12:57And so the product kind of caught fire in New York City. And, you know, one thing led to another and fast forward a few years later, and now it's a little bit different of a beast, but we keep evolving it. And yeah, it's a lot of fun to see where it goes. If I may, that sounds so counterintuitive, right? I mean, that story, we've been doing these interviews across North America for the past year. And to think about starting a brand, you don't want to advertise for the first year, and you're not going to tell anybody about the product unless they ask. I mean, Nick, that's not what the, let's say the classic entrepreneur is doing with their products, right?

13:37No, it's not. It was self-funded for the first year. And so everything that Tim did in the first year was out of necessity. He promised that to himself, but also could we afford it is the question? Probably not. But our goal as brothers, we worked together in the past. We always wanted to build a really iconic consumer brand. That's what interests us in the business world. And I think something that ultimately becomes iconic has a really organic, authentic start to it. And because it was a side project, and it was self-funded, and there was no like outside pressure, we were able to stick to these two principles, which ultimately it's when something spreads by word of mouth, that's the best way for it to spread.

14:28And so before we took off from our full-time jobs and jumped into this full-time, we had this really organic foundation. The next step was saying, okay, we kind of understand what the magic of the brand is, what we've done across that past year. We have a lot bigger ambitions and aspirations. So how do we take that magic and scale it while maintaining the authenticity, which is the real, that's the real opportunity for us.

14:57I mean, the way that we're building the brand is not fast money. It's actually a lot scarier to try to build an iconic brand than to try to build a marketing funnel that's going to just optimize for conversion because building all of these emotional connections in person, that doesn't pay off immediately. Adding value to your community over and over and over and over again, and then at some point, hopefully, that they're going to purchase your products, that requires a lot of patience.

15:31Building an iconic brand is about doing the right thing and adding value over and over and over again and emotionally connecting with people and not selling them. The best way you just said to grow a brand is word of mouth, which is in this day of multi-channel, omni-channel marketing seems counterintuitive, but really a great learning. Gentlemen, let's get to this moment where you have this great idea, You're doing this during COVID. It starts to take off. There's this organic energy around your products, a sock, right? It starts with a sock. And then you're like, oh shit, like this could become something real.

16:07We might need to leave our jobs and go full time. Maybe I'll start, Nick, with you. When did you know that this was going to be something that you could dedicate yourself to? Tim and I, you know, he'd be setting up the back end of the Shopify going into each subsequent drop. And I'd be QAing the product content and watching it. and then he would click the launch button. And it was like, every time we did a drop across the first year, everything was selling out faster at bigger drops. And knowing that we weren't like paying for the audience that was coming, it was just clear that there was something special about it.

16:41And he had added a couple of products, like we did a run hat and we did a hoodie. And it was like everything that we put out, people were eating up. And that was really like testing the waters of, do we have range outside of just a run stock? because like the run sock is a trust building product. It's a repeat product. It's got great margins. Like it's got all the hallmarks of a great initial product, but we never wanted to be a sock company. We wanted to like really have an impact on this sport. That's had a really positive impact on our lives. And so the ambitions were like in the back of our heads, always a lot bigger than, than just the sock.

17:15You're both athletes. And when it comes to taking that leap, we think about that a lot. when we talk to merchants and when they know like, hey, I'm gonna leave my job. We have bills to pay. You have kids, I have kids. So I can relate to that. It's a scary thing to do. Is there a moment, Tim, when you're like, this is what I wanna do. I'm gonna drop everything else. Nick and I have always wanted to drop everything else and do something. So for me, I have no kids, no major responsibilities. It was a no brainer. I wanted to do it as soon as the opportunity came up. And, you know, but I think the experiences were probably a little bit different.

17:56It's scary for a lot of people and it's a scary thing to do. What I always came back to is how much I would regret not doing it and knowing that I would much prefer to do it and fail. And I would land on my two feet. I'd figure it out, then not do it all and live with the idea of, you know, what if.

18:24Just making the leap for me was kind of easy, but that's not the case for everyone, and I understand that. It's not the case for everyone. It's the case for you two. And there were a lot of options that you could have gone with to kind of accelerate this, right? Again, just to recap, we started with the community, something very organic. I'm picturing you just kind of pulling up at the track or in town, and you got your socks on, some guys like, or person, hey, what's that? And you're like, oh, I'll tell you all about it. But then you came with us, you picked Shopify. Why? Why'd you pick Shopify?

19:00Because I didn't use Shopify at my last company and that was a major learning. I launched an omni-channel D2C brand and we were using a platform that will go unnamed. And everybody else, all of my other founder friends were on Shopify. And I don't have to do a lot of research if the people that I trust are telling me one thing. And so it's just kind of a no-brainer to use Shopify. It sounds like an ad, but it's true. Well, I mean, but why? I mean, if we could drill down just a little bit more, why is it a no-brainer? Is there something that stands out that's just so much easier? You have this experience of using this nameless brand, right?

19:36Yeah, yeah. It's just easier is really what it comes down to, to get something off the ground, like just the back-end CMS is a lot more intuitive. The out-of-the-box options that you have, are it's just everything is more intuitive and easier. And you know, based on other huge brands that are on the Shopify platform, that not only is it easy to get started, but you can scale with that platform. And there are a lot of others that you can jump into that are too big for you early on. And then you're overpaying or you jump into them and they don't scale with you. And Shopify is very much the platform that you can jump into and you can get something launched like in 24 hours, but you can also be a billion dollar company with it.

20:19And I don't think that there's another platform out there like that. It's very true. We try to be as scalable as possible. And we're gonna get more into what happened to both of you and the company after you started to grow in the subsequent years. My guests today, Tim and Nick West, founders of Bandit Running. By the way, if you're listening to our show right now and you like what you're hearing, do us a favor, please, please, please leave a comment wherever you are listening. And subscribe to the podcast too, Shopify Masters. Thank you. Storytelling, it's a big part of your content strategy, but it's not as easy as it sounds, right?

20:58I mean, I actually teach storytelling at the collegiate level, so I know it's one thing to have an idea or a message, but to put that to paper or to put that to a video, it's difficult. So I'm curious, Tim, what do you think makes for a good story in the context of Bandit running? I think good creative makes you feel understood and resonates with you. And we're really good at Bandit at taking the mundane moments of running and showing you actually how special and lovely and elegant and fun they are, whether it's yourself meeting up with friends in a park, there's these subtle details to those experiences that have gone overlooked in creative in running.

21:58And I think people really enjoy feeling understood and feeling like a brand gets them. and gets their experience. And they love when a brand feels authentic and they know and can feel confident that the folks behind the brand are the same as them. You're walking the walk, or in this case, you're running the run, right? Yeah, exactly. For runners, by runners is one of our mantras. And there's a lot of different stories to be told from doing what I was just talking about to doing a lot more interesting, creative, wacky ideas that serve their own purpose and take running to a more mythical place that you never imagined.

22:51And there's all of these different ways to storytell running. And then there's really raw moments as well and showing somebody's true experience as they've run a race or trained for something. And there's a lot of different ways to tell the story, but I think at the end of the day, the common denominator of what makes a story great is it giving you a visceral reaction because of how understood it makes you feel. I love the passion in which you're drawing on to describe this, right? You mentioned earlier, you've done some ultra running. I've seen videos of friends or just people online. They fall in the dirt.

23:27They're bleeding from their knee, right? They're exhausted, like jamming carbs down their throat after they've run a bunch. I mean, those are the details that make the storytelling relatable. right? Exactly. And there's been some amazing campaigns that do exactly that, that show the ugly side of running. For the majority of creative, it has been the same beautiful stride elevated with a smile. The polished version. Exactly. Which is not super, super relatable for the bulk of runners. And I think showing that other side of it and coming back to reality is really powerful and something that I think brands across various industries can do.

24:07Everything is made to be the perfect version, very polished, very perfected, when in fact I think the creative that works in this day and age, and maybe it'll come full circle and pendulum will swing back, but right now what really works is the messiness and the realness and the rawness of creative. Do you agree, Nick? 100%. Yeah. And it's really just, it's like, it's not some, you won't be able to come up with a creative idea like that with a focus group, right? That would be like a reversion to the mean. And you're going to come up with that like polished image because you're not thinking about the nuances and the nuances is, that's really where the magic is at.

24:51um so we we are always thinking a lot about like yes running is a straightforward sport no pun intended um but the running experience we've been good on the puns yeah yeah we're killing it on the puns but the running experience is like internally it's a very complex thing you go through such a range of emotions and yeah we're not talking to focus groups to figure out our creative we're like talking as a team because we all have different experiences in running and We're just trying to be authentic to our own experiences. You're trying to be authentic to your own experiences. You're also walking the walk.