What it Takes to Turn Your Hobby into Profits

0:00I just really listened to my little voice. My voice was telling me, you should do it. Because if you don't try, even if it's not successful, you just do it. You feel you have to.

0:23Hello, I'm Shuang Esther Shan and you're listening to Shopify On Location in Montreal. Do you love making crafts and wonder if you can build a business around it? It might be scary, especially if you have a secure corporate job. But that's exactly what Camille Ouellette did. She's the founder and maker behind the jewelry brand Camillette. Camille built a business around her passion that supports her lifestyle. And if you ask her, Montreal was the perfect place to do it. Camille, welcome to the show. Thanks, Chuan. Thank you so much for being here. I know that for a while you had a career in sustainability consulting while you made some jewelry pieces.

1:07So how did you create a large enough clientele before you were able to go full time with Camillette? I think it just grew naturally. Of course, putting more time in the company definitely helped. But I think time is the key in some way. And I guess also being perseverant and just getting to know also your craft, getting to know your clientele, what they are looking for, and also listening to them. what they want, what they like, what's working, what is not working with your products. And while you were working, it was actually a really nice security to have that nine to five. And on the weekend, instead of visiting craft fairs, you would actually be selling at small craft fairs.

2:02Yes, exactly. So I think some people starting a business, they just jump in. And for me, it wasn't really something I would do. I think I need more security, as you were saying. So having a part-time job as a sustainability consultant, this is what I studied, really allowed me to feel more safe to start my business on the side. And at the beginning, I didn't have the, maybe there was like a small idea of maybe doing that as a living, being a maker. But I wasn't sure. So with time, it just grew. And after a few years that I saw the option or that I could really do that as a living. And gradually, I started to work less as a sustainability consultant and work more for the business.

2:59And there was also a fateful move back to Montreal that also helped with the business. Why was it the right place to actually take this business and run it full time? I think I just felt very comfortable in Montreal. It's my hometown. And even if I didn't know much people in this field, I had a few contacts. And I think Montreal is a very creative city, very open to makers, designers, artists. So I just felt that, yeah, it was the right timing. I guess I was also lucky in a way. I think all local movement was coming also. So people were eager to get that kind of products.

4:02Yeah, Montreal is a great place for that. There's also, it's not easy to find like a place to work, but there's still some places that are available for artists. And I think artists and makers are also getting together to really build spaces for them to work. I certainly feel like Montreal is the fashion capital of Canada. Everyone is very stylish and creative. And you mentioned that being in the city also allowed you to find that workshop place, which is something previously was in San Francisco, which real estate might be a lot more competitive and more financially restrictive. So talk to us a little bit about the affordability and the freedom it gives you by being in Montreal as well.

4:54Yeah, when I was living in the U.S., I never thought about having like a workspace outside of my home. I was working in the garage, which was OK because the climate is milder than in Montreal. But I just, I was talking also with a few friends living in Montreal and trying to find like a place where I could work. And quite rapidly, I, so I had some like people to contact and some hints of where I could work. But I think Montreal is still somehow affordable. I hope it will stay like this, but I fear not. but still you can have quality place studios to work and I luckily I found one not too far from where I live I also think it's a beautiful full circle moment because you actually started making jewelry as a teenager when you originally lived in Montreal you know you found this passion early on you still went and did a graduate degree you still had a corporate job what advice do you have for someone who's going through the same kind of motions where there is a passionate hobby maybe and they're thinking about starting a business but they may be a little bit scared to do that for me I got to a point or I think it's probably it's my age as well I was in my mid-30s and I was really thinking about I had all those questions like okay what am I doing with my life Is it what I want to do?

6:35So probably a middle life crisis that we, as we say. And I just really listened to my little voice, inside voice. And my voice just was telling me, you should do it. Because if you don't try, even if it's not successful, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you just do what you want to do, what you feel you have to. I was thinking, if I don't do it, I will regret it at some point. And I was just saying to myself, I don't want to live with this regret.

7:21it. And of course, I think it's okay to listen to also your fears. I mean, if it's too much for you to just jump, you can find arrangement with part-time work, perhaps. So just you feel secure and you don't have like no incomes. Well, I was lucky because I couldn't do it. I know it's not easy for everyone to do that, but I could do it. So I think my advice is really just listen to your inner voice, what it tells you to do. And even if it's not successful, as I was saying, it doesn't matter. I think what is important is that if you have dreams, just do it. I think a lot of it has to do with how you're spending your time because that's kind of the only resource we have.

8:14So when you were building up Camulet, you also started an online store, also an account with Etsy. I think for jewelry brands, a lot of it has to do with how you showcase the pieces online. What advice do you have for product photography and making it look beautiful as it would look in person? I would say your website or social media is just like if you have a boutique and is the window towards your clients are looking. So it has to be as beautiful as you were saying, if you see it with your own eyes. So for me, I think it was also the key to really have the best pictures that you can get that will represent your brand.

9:03I think it's, especially with jewelry, it's important to have like more product shoot. So that really close up, that really show the jewelry. And my jewelry is so small and it's so hard to get good shots. But this is one type of photography that you need, but you also need photography on people. so people can really relate and see, oh, okay, it's going to look on me like this. And now I'm trying as well to have different type of skin colors and bodies to show like the jewelry on different type of person. So yeah, photography, images, videos, showing also yourself when you work or if you have partners, what they do as well.

9:58I think it's very important and people are interested in the making of things, definitely. When you were starting out, did you hire external help for photography or did you tackle that mostly on your own? Oh, I needed help for that. That's for sure. I tried myself to take a few pictures, but it was very, very bad. So yes, definitely I hired like a professional photographer and I think it really just the level of professionalism was much higher with really good pictures. So yes, I really recommend to get some help, whatever it takes to showcase what you do. And then like most makers, you also had that journey from Etsy to building your own online store with Shopify.

10:56Why was that switch so important for you? To me, from the beginning, Etsy was more, I would say, a temporary shop or window. It's great with Etsy because you can do it really fast. You can put your products online and people can buy it. But at the same time, there are so many products and artisans on Etsy and you don't have much control over all the data, like getting to know who is buying, who is your clientele. So for me, from the beginning, it was clear that I needed to open my own website, my own e-commerce so I could get more information of my clients. And so I can after also reach them because they are they are your fans.

11:49So you need to actually talk to them and see like what are their behaviors, what they like, what they don't like. So I guess for me, yes, it was really important to switch from Etsy. It's very nice to hear that Shopify was able to provide you with customer data that helped you with loyalty and retention, also developing some great programs for your fans. For people who are in similar shoes, who are a maker, they might be intimidated with coding and starting a website. What advice do you have for starting an online store? I think you can start very easily. Now you have different companies that offers e-commerce that you can set up yourself.

12:39Of course, you have maybe less power over like the design or all the different options on your website. But if you want to start easy and fast, there are options, which is great. This is what I did. And after I built on with a more custom website, which is still a Shopify e-commerce, but I got some help to really make the website fit with all the design branding of Camillette. So I'm still having some help always, always. Since my business is half online, you always need to improve your website. And I think it's at such a beautiful state right now. It really reflects your style, that dainty, delicate style.

13:33And it's a great place to showcase what you're making. I know that you actually source and work with a lot of material suppliers locally. What are some tips you have for others who are trying to find good materials while they're also trying to develop relationships with those suppliers? Well, the jewelry industry is quite peculiar because most of the providers are in downtown Montreal, actually not very far from where we are recording now. I'm going to go there actually after the recording. So, which is handy because you have pretty much all the providers in one building. so I guess for me I was also talking with fellow jewelry makers and designers and I was just asking like questions oh where can I get someone to do the plating on on this jewelry oh I need someone who can do stone setting oh I need someone who can help me with 3d design and so asking my community.

14:42There are also groups on different platforms, Facebook, for good names. And then you, I guess, get to experience the providers and their products or services. And if you like how they work, well, you just build a relationship with them. And speaking of having your workshop, you're also always surrounded by fellow artists within the space how would you describe i guess montreal's overall sense of community for creators and if you guys influence each other throughout your design process or how you grow your business i think montreal is a very creative city i would say and i think there's a real sense of community and people are helping each other I never felt that if I needed help or if I needed advice, I couldn't ask a fellow maker.

15:50It happened to me very often that I didn't know a maker. And for example, they just did like one show and perhaps I want to do this show. How did it go for you? And always I got like a response, even if I didn't know the person personally. So I think Montreal is great with that.

16:14Of course, I think we do influence each other. And I think there's also a lot of collaboration also between different crafts, which is great. So sometimes jewelry designers will collaborate with fashion designers or with people who are doing ceramics. So we see like a lot of these collaboration, which is very inspiring, I think. Love to hear how collaborative and supportive it is. Well, thank you for sharing the journey of building up Camillette. and I'm excited to get into your stories about retail partnerships on the later half of our show. I know so many of our listeners are in similar situation.

17:02By the way, if you want to hear more conversations like this, hit the follow button wherever you're listening and write a review to let us know what you think of the episode. Thank you. So one of the most important retail partnerships you have is with Simons, the iconic retailer base out of Quebec. How did this partnership come to be? Actually, it's Simon's who approached me. So just to explain a little bit. So on the Simon website, there is one part which is more the focus is on Canadian makers and it's called the Fabrique 1840. But it's on Simon's website. So when they were building, I was doing a show in in Toronto, the one of a kind show, they were recruiting, they were looking for makers and they just approached me and say, Hey, we like what you do.

17:58Would you like to be on the Simon website on this branch or a canal that we are working on to get Canadians to know more Canadian makers? And was like, yes, of course. And of course, for the exposure, this was great because I was still starting and I think it was a great opportunity for me to get to know the brand and since my pieces also are very I would say timeless and classic there's a lot of women of many different ages and style that like what I do so it's working well on Simon so it's a for me it's a it's a good place to be to sell my products. Their project, I believe it's 1848 because it references when the retailer actually started.

18:54And it's very cool to hear that. They're supporting local artists. I think the cool takeaway here is the fact that you did invest in your brand and you took a chance to attend a trade show, which often might be a bit costly. Yes. Yes, but it sounds like, you know, there are retail relationships coming out of that. Yeah, what advice do you have for makers who are contemplating that first big investment into their brand and actually select a trade show to go to? I would say ask questions about who is attending, what is the clientele, and if this clientele is looking for your kind of products. I think this is the first question.

19:40Who are the other makers? Is it a renowned, well-established event? This can give you cues about like if it's worth investing or not. You can also reach out for other makers who are doing it and have their tips and ideas maybe to help you. Also some shows to get in, it's quite hard sometimes. So you need to submit and you don't know if you're going to get in the show. So this can also be helpful. And after that, I think you just have to try it and see for yourself if it's working or not. Sometimes you need to take chances and see.

20:35Got to take that chance and bet on your own brand. So Simons is one of the retailers you work with. You also partner with from Rachel. How do you conceptualize different collections that are specific to retailers to make sure you have your own style, your own vision? But it also reflects the ethos of the retailer and it's something that they also want to carry. I think what is important is just communication, like what they are looking for. If they ask you to design a collection or a few pieces, it's because they love what you do. So, of course, you don't want to denaturate your style, but you still have to consider like their clientele and what they are looking for.

21:27Why are they asking you and not another maker? so just ask a lot of questions and maybe do some sketches and test and see like oh do you like this or not and when I design I like to collaborate a lot so I'm asking a lot of even for custom designs like I'll do some like tree sketches and ask my my client oh do you like this uh yeah but maybe I like a little bit of of this on this design and a little bit of that on this design okay let's do something else then and because at the end of the day you want the company to be happy and to like the the design and they know their client also you should listen to them as well sounds like a very cohesive collaboration and for fans of yours they could actually collaborate with you in person by going to a workshop which you mentioned is making up 50 of your business What advice do you have for those who are balancing online presence with in-person experience to make sure that both sides is engaging and you're offering experiences or services that are very synergistic?

22:45That's a good question. At the beginning, I wasn't really planning to do workshops. So I do ring making workshops and custom charm bracelets or necklaces. Actually, it just happened naturally. Again, I was just listening to what people were wanting or looking for. And I just and people are very curious about like how you make jewelry. Metal, it's hard. So how how you shape it, how you solder it is can be a little bit mysterious. and intriguing so I was just thinking well maybe let's do like basic or easy workshops for people to just try it and see for themselves like what is it to be like a jewelry maker for a few hours so I guess you need to be also to just listen to to people around you and it was an intuition as well for me to do this.

23:50And yeah, it's working quite well. And I think to close off our show, I would love to ask you about growing as an artist, because as your business grows, you need to hire more people and you need to also let go of some of your past responsibilities. How do you manage that as a maker and how do you handle hiring the right people. It's hard. So I started doing everything myself pretty much. I reached a point where I couldn't do like everything myself. It was impossible. I was spending way too many hours. So this is when I realized, okay, you need to delegate. Delegating is not easy. I think it's finding the right person who you know can help you and that you can trust as well and that is also on the same I would say vibe than you so I was lucky to find someone like that Evelyn who is doing pretty much all the production now so of course I'm keeping all the design work all the custom design work and I'm pretty much doing also all the workshops but now also I cannot be like all year round at the workshop also giving classes so now I'm also hiring to give classes because I cannot give all the classes myself which are often during the evenings or during the weekend.

25:30So if I want to have some free time, well, I need to hire also other people. I think when someone do something that you were used to do before, a task that you were doing, of course, it won't be the same as if you were doing it. Of course, it will be different. But I think it's a question of, okay, trusting the person. And also, sometimes you can have really good surprises like the person is actually very good and is doing other things that you would not think of and which could also help you grow and also delegating give you more time to do other tasks like getting new clients reaching out to boutiques and get your your pieces in other places where you can sell it.

26:28So for me, it was definitely the right move to do this and also having a better balance of like free time and work time. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. And we look forward to how you grow your workshops and as well as your different collections. Thank you. Thanks for having me on the show, Shuang. That's Camille Ouellette, the founder of Kemulet. Shopify Masters is produced by Gogo Zoger and Megan Coyle. Our engineers are Matt Shorts and Miku Betlam. Benjamin Gottlieb is our supervising producer, and I'm Shuang Estershan. We appreciate you tuning in to Shopify on location in Montreal.

27:10See you next time on Shopify Masters.

27:22Bye.