Why Going DTC Isn’t as Simple as Putting Your Inventory Online

0:00You can't take that wholesale strategy and just plop it online and expect that to work. So for Lisa and I, it was taking an entirely new strategy and immersing ourselves in that daily. Hello and welcome to Shopify Masters, your companion for starting and building a business. I'm Shuang Esther Shan. So often the clothing business relies on wholesale. It's a model that Jen Menchaca and Lisa Hickey knew well. Jen had previously started a t-shirt brand. Lisa had 20 years on the wholesale side, launching fashion lines and selling them to department stores. The two combined forces to start Perfect White Tea.

0:45It's a clothing brand that specializes in high-quality basics that are available all year. Jen and Lisa are here to chat about how they're balancing the direct-to-consumer and wholesale side of business. Thank you so much for being here, Jen and Lisa. Thank you. Happy to be here. very very excited to chat with you both talk to us about the seasonality and the calendar planning that comes with fashion and what did you want to do differently so i mean there's so much that we wanted to do differently but i think to be able to offer products on replenishment year-round was one of the main driving factors for perfect white tea When we first started talking about just your classic elevated tees for every age, seasonless classic forever, it was replenishment.

1:36It's to have a white t-shirt 12 months out of the year. And I would say that was probably one of our first driving forces. So really creating that evergreen wardrobe essential. and the two of you joined forces because you felt like there were complementary skill sets and you balance each other out. So tell us a bit of your past experience and why was it such an easy decision to actually launch something together? You're right. Easy is actually the word for she and I. I mean, the business is not easy, but the partnership is. And I think that's really where the value and the success is. Lisa tried to pull a fast one on me a while ago and tried to start another line.

2:21I love telling the story, Lisa. You take pleasure in this. I do. I love it. We had worked together on another brand before and she had wrapped the brand and done a great job. And she and I had forged this relationship that turned into a friendship. She had an opportunity to start a t-shirt brand with someone else who remains It's nameless. And I'm so glad that fell through. I think at the time she was bummed out about it. But in back of my mind, I was thinking to myself that we really needed to do something together because we just jive so well. We ying and yang so well. She is completely opposite of me when it comes to a lot of things.

2:59And so our relationship organically grew as friends. And then at some point in 2019, someone that I knew in the fabric business who had been working in fabrics and developing fabrics for upwards of 40 years out here in Los Angeles had said, I'm going to start manufacturing t-shirts now, not just fabrics. He wanted to do t-shirts and he was like, would you like to join? I just thought to myself, this is the perfect opportunity to snag her. And so Lisa was like on it so fast. She was like, yep, we can totally do this. And she flew out. She created a business plan in 10 minutes with our fabric investor.

3:36And now here we are slinging teas like there is no tomorrow and laughing all the way through trying laughing at the good times and the bad times right lisa what she brings to the brand and what i bring to the brand are two different things and we trust each other we trust each other fully so where i might love numbers and spreadsheets and business plans and she refuses to look at them she loves to deal with colors and product and execution and branding and we trust each other to make the best decisions for the brand. And it makes things much easier when you have a partner that you can do that with.

4:13So it sounds like complementary skill sets and also having a united goal really worked for the partnership. For fellow founders who might be looking for a co-founder and developing that relationship over the course of the business, what tips do you have for making sure your friendship and your partnership grows along with the business? My inclination is to say we're pretty lucky because we respect each other. We respect each other's idiosyncrasies. We trust each other's intuition and we talk things through all the time, right? Lisa, even if it's in your lane, you even like, well, show me numbers and you force me to look at them with you.

4:59And we come to decisions because we trust each other's instincts on everything. But I think it really, it's really trust, right, Lise? Yeah. I mean, I also think values come into play. I think we formed a friendship because we have a lot of the same values. Values in business and personal and life and friendship. And I mean, it's like a marriage. And when you are looking for a partner, you have to have the same values. then comes everything else. I really liked how you mentioned values and that's such an important foundation for a business. And I think it ties back to the concept of perfect white tea.

5:41You also had this value where you're making it easy for customers to buy their closet essentials and making items available continuously. So talk to us about your approach, thinking about the customer and making their purchasing journey easier. One of the main goals that we had with this product was that it would also be ageless, timeless. Ultimately, how do we give the end consumer quality that they can wash and wear all the time and also that anybody can wear it? If you're 18, you can wear it. If you're 40, if you're 50, fashion shouldn't have an age limit. And how do we bring back that classic staple in your wardrobe that you never want to get rid of that's high quality cotton that's made in the U.S.

6:29How do we do it? And I think that was one of our biggest goals was just to be seasonless and classic, right? Those are the two words, Jen, you and I used from the beginning of time. The name too, Perfect White Tea, really says it all. It really comes down to that visceral effect that you have when you wear the Perfect White T-shirt. We all covet that one garment, right? We took that concept of the feeling you get when you wear your Perfect White Tea and try to apply it to the categories that we create. That could be the tank top or the sweatshirt or the jogger or the whatever it is. So we're trying to like create that same feeling for like the best of the best in every category.

7:09You know, granted, we're growing so fast right now and we're adding on to new categories and we experiment with trends, but just enough to make it true to the brand. You know, we're not ultra trendy. We basically take the trends that you see in the marketplace and we adapt them to our aesthetic, which is pretty much keep it simple, right? What can everybody wear that makes sense that we want to be relevant, but we also don't want to be overly trendy at the same time. And I think we've been able to strike a really good balance so far with that. It's kind of a crowdsourcing situation, right? to the extent that we ask our team, we ask our friends, we ask, you know, we have a protocol where we go out to all of our sales reps and say, what do you want to see next season?

7:54And, you know, sometimes there are pieces in the, you know, suggestion box that don't quite fit our aesthetic, but we can work on it and create something that does and that does still look right in a perfect white tea assortment. Yeah, I mean, the crowdsourcing part is actually fun. It's interesting to get feedback from all the different territories as well, where, you know, the southeast part of the country and southwest are warmer and they want more tanks and lightweight teas. And the northeast and Midwest by October want fleece. You know, it's how do you find the combination of things that can appeal to everybody in all temperatures and all climates?

8:32So it's fun to even just see what those suggestions are. But ultimately, we need to make sure that we stay in our perfect White Tea Lean and that it's on brand and it looks like us. And I imagine entering direct to consumer, you have this whole new channel filled with customer feedback and data. So did the crowdsourcing of feedback change once you entered direct to consumer? I think direct to consumer changed everything for us. It's interesting to hear directly from the consumer for the first time ever, right? So in wholesale, we're listening to the store buyer or the store owner, the retailer telling us, hey, this is doing really well, or we don't like this or this fit, or, you know, they're giving us feedback.

9:17Now that the consumer is coming directly to us, telling us exactly how they feel. But I think we love it. We love having that consumer that can tell us right away, we can put something on the website and we can find out, hey, this is a hit. Look, they're loving this sweatshirt or they're loving this fit. And they're leaving reviews and comments and they're letting us know. We take all of those things into account when we're developing our future seasons, for sure. It started out as just wholesale. So I think one of the things that Lisa and I discovered very quickly was that our relationships not only helped us launch and really catapult this brand into the marketplace, but our relationships also helped us get feedback very quickly.

9:59We really value our relationships with the buyer. And so when we took that idea and we went direct to consumer, now we're hearing it from both, right? So some of the feedback is different from a buyer's perspective to the end consumer perspective, but it's been really fascinating to be able to create a balance and to really understand the differences of the dynamic between the wholesale buyer and the end consumer. And I think it's been eye-opening to say the least. It's a whole shift in mentality from us. We were wholesalers before, and now we're two feet in with our end consumer, and we really enjoy it actually.

10:37And just digging a little bit more into that data feedback channel, are there any tips for people who are trying to collect data, synthesize feedback to make sure the concerns from customers that our voice are actually implemented in future designs and ways of operating your business? Sometimes understanding the audience and understanding when to take something with a grain of salt and when not to is possibly the biggest challenge we have. It's when you're hearing the same comments over and over about something, it may force you to look at it a little quicker than when you're hearing it once or twice, right?

11:15So I think when it comes to consumer feedback and when to implement, you also have to stay true to yourself because you can really get lost in the sea of information that people give you. And when we're getting information from wholesalers, retailers, buyers, and consumers, sometimes it's, you do need to learn to cut out the noise and kind of filter the most important information that you're receiving. And that's when Jenna and I will sit and discuss and say, okay, you know, from all of this information, What are you gathering? And it's like, OK, we need more of this or we need less of this. And I think that is the best piece of advice I would give, because sometimes filtering that information is a little overwhelming.

12:00And then speak to us about that shift from wholesale to direct to consumer. I know the company launched a bit before pandemic, so there was obviously environmental pressures to enter into the new channel. Tell us about the journey of going online and selling online. We were just trying to answer the direct question of how do I find my favorite style and more colors? That's how it started. It was, you know, we were shipping boutiques only. That's our wholesale strategy. And we were shipping them and the end consumer was DMing us on Instagram saying, hey, Harley's my favorite fit, my boutique stocking, some of the colors.

12:41How do I find more colors? Do you have more colors? and from there is when we kind of stepped into this whole new world of wow the possibilities are endless we can put everything online there isn't 500 square feet that you have to stick something in you know and it was eye-opening for us yeah and for anyone out there it's interesting i think lisa and i and we you know we're smart enough to kind of know this but in reality like You can't just take your assortment and you can't take that wholesale strategy and just plop it online and expect that to work. Lisa and I had to educate ourselves. And it's a daily, ongoing process because there are these tectonic shifts in technology that if you're not on top of, then you're behind.

13:31And so for Lisa and I, like I said, it was taking an entirely new strategy and immersing ourself in that daily. It's a daily challenge. I feel like there's new technology over and over and over. And if we don't apply it or research or learn to throw it in the mix of what we're doing and try out these new strategies, we are going to be behind. mind so the amount of new companies out there and advancements in technology that we need to be aware of is is it's it's actually overwhelming at times wouldn't you say lisa we did an ad call with our agency yesterday and he told us you know looking back at last year's q4 ads and i just want to talk to you guys about them and we're preparing for q4 this year what does that look like and he He said, I just want to let you know your ads were really bad last year.

14:28Yeah, he did say that, by the way. I think I created them. I think you did. But you know what I think the fun part about it was, was to see two things. You know, you can't be afraid to put yourself out there and start somewhere. No one is good at everything right from the start, right? That was my lesson 101 from that call yesterday was like, you know, I'm pretty damn proud of our ads from last year because they got us to this year. and we've evolved and we've learned and we've educated ourselves and we've spent time and resources and people and trying to figure out what that even means. But you have to start somewhere.

15:05And, you know, although our ads may not have been as good as they are now, I totally still love them. I thought they were funny. And I was just going to tell you that, Jen, I still love our ads from last year. I know they're not the same as they are this year, but you got to start somewhere and you really got to put yourself out there and you're not going to be great at it from day one. Let's be real. But the point is to keep evolving and keep up with technology and just, you know, making it happen. And that's definitely what got us to where we are. So you mentioned switching from wholesale to direct to consumer.

15:41You had to change your whole mindset and also almost all of your strategy. What were some of the key takeaways that you learned about selling online that was so different? Well, I think one of the things Jen said was for us to take our brand to wholesale was fairly easy, right? We had the relationships with the buyers and the stores and we love them and they loved us. It was fairly easy for us to bring our product to market the way we normally do at trade shows or on the road or in the showroom and it was a simple, you know, strategy plan. We got to online and we quickly realized that no one knew who we were.

16:20Right. And we're like, no one knows who, you know, Lisa, who did wholesale for 20 years or Jen, who had brand for, you know, no one knew us. And we had to figure out how to tell our story online, how to show people what our product was. It's a very humbling experience too, by the way. Lisa's a hundred percent right. Cause Lisa is a pro at showing buyers. And then all of a sudden we're like putting it online. And I, you know, thought of myself as some sort of a, you know, graphic genius and photography. Like I understood photo shoots and I suddenly realized that I need to relearn completely everything that I knew.

17:02So for founders who are starting their online store for the first time, what are some things that they must keep in mind? I think the first thing I would say is to send a clear brand message with your landing homepage. Like, who are you as a brand? What is your aesthetic? And make sure it's on brand with you. That was something that I feel like we did right off the bat. And we had our logo, but we said, whenever someone comes to Perfect White Teave, we want them to experience us. So what does that look like? What groups are we appealing to? What ages are we appealing to? Do we want to be clean and classic?

17:39So I think really, you know, making sure that your homepage is true to your brand and your brand aesthetic is super important. And the second thing is just making sure it's extremely easy for your customers to navigate your website. We're still working on that. That is not something that we've stopped working on. Consumers get frustrated and when they get frustrated, they bounce. So really making sure that your consumers can find the product they're looking for, whether it's your mega menu or what have you. It's just the organized process, I would say, is super important when you're first starting your website.

18:18Prepare for customer service, really, is what it comes down to. If you're going to put yourself out there online, you better be ready to answer your customers as soon as possible. So So you need to have not just a customer service, and Lisa and I are actually working on adding someone else to our team that's more of a customer experience. We cannot emphasize that enough. You have got to be prepared to implement a very robust customer experience. Very good to hear about the practical advice of building an online store for the first time, and we're going to dive deeper into your marketing strategy.

18:57Thank you so much for tuning in. After this episode, please do us a favor and leave us a review or rate the show wherever you're listening to the podcast. Thank you so much. So I also like how both of you were talking about this meeting with your agency and you're chatting about the ads and ways you want to improve. Talk to us about experimenting with paid advertising and how you're iterating and perfecting your ads to make sure that it resonates with more customers? That's a$64 ,000 question. We're still learning every single day. And sometimes I'll say, you know, it's kind of just a crapshoot, to be honest with you.

19:38Facebook has, you know, very interesting algorithms in place that it makes it almost impossible to predict how an ad is going to run and how an ad is going to perform. We really have experimented with so many different types of ads, and it can be the most minimal thing from the tweak of a phrase. We can go from a colored ad to a black and white ad. We can go from showing a quote, not showing a quote, showing the garment, not showing the garment, showing a face, not showing a face. The variations are endless, right? And so you don't really get that much guidance from Meta to help to guide you along this path and say, oh, this is actually definitely going to work.

20:24So a lot of times you're just creating ads, what you think might work and just crossing your fingers and putting them out there. You know, there's a strategy because you know, some things are working and you try to emulate that, but one tiny thing could be off and it doesn't resonate with your customer. And then your ad buy is depleted. Yeah. I mean, I think when it comes to ads, it's also really important And if you're working with an ads agency to hold their hand. Our most recent one has just really held their hand, walked us through the process. Things change. Things change with Meta. There's updates and we're trying to evolve with them.

21:00But like Jen said, it's why did it work with the verbiage, but not without the verbiage? Should we add more that are similar? What's grabbing everyone's attention? And it's just like Jen said, trying to emulate that across more ads with new products. is really the name of the game. I definitely would not say that anyone can perfect that process that easily. I mean, I feel like that's kind of a shared struggle. A lot of founders experiment with paid ads, but I think you ladies are selling yourselves short. You've seen substantial growth, I believe. Certain months you've seen the business 4X. So yeah, talk to us about some of the wins and some of the monumental moments where you've seen success online as well.

21:45Year over year, especially in the beginning, we were growing somewhere for four to five hundred percent from one year to the next, which is kind of amazing. No easy feat. Definitely don't want to sell ourselves short. But like I said, it was a lot of experimenting. It was a lot of failure. We recently had an ad that I think we should talk about because we were getting so many comments about one of our ads, which was a$70 T-shirt. when the comments were$70, why is it$70? You know, and questioning the quality and the value of it. And we decided because of that and all the engagement we were getting on that one ad, let's put an ad about why RT$70.

22:25And it's, I want to say it's performing like crazy because it's answering the question that the end consumer's asking. Why is your t-shirt$70? Why is it different? Why is it so special? Why can't I go and buy a$10 t-shirt? And we answered, you know, and answering those questions for the customer to see, you know, we're made here in the U.S. Our fabric mail is based in Los Angeles. It was one of those things. It's listening to your consumer, what they're gravitating towards or asking you for online or questions they might have, and just putting more ads out there that might answer those questions.

23:01Yeah, it's like, don't be afraid of the truth. You know, we're not hiding behind anything. And none of us are over here, you know, driving Bentleys. I have an 11-year-old SUV. You know, it's not like, you know, we're overcharging people and having fun doing it. It's all about really explaining to the customer because they don't know. Like, they simply don't know. I'm not afraid to talk about it. You know, sure, there's going to be customers that aren't, you know, kind about it. And they, you know, just love to troll. And they're not really interested in the answer, right? There's always going to be those.

23:32And you can see them in some of our ads. That's okay. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about, you know, I'm more focused on the people who are defending it and who understand that a quality t-shirt is pricey. And it's not just because it's a willy-nilly retail tag that we're sticking on the end of a garment that, you know, it's there for a reason. And we just want to explain those reasons. And we feel so comfortable and confident about where we're coming from that it created a really interesting dynamic on these ads that I think no matter what, it's all benefiting us. I think that's the beauty of advertising on social media.

24:07It's no longer a billboard that speaks out towards an audience. You're actually having this dialogue. And I think that also helps the brand to stand out because I think in fashion, especially brands creating elevated basics, there's so many new brands entering that arena. What are some other ways you're also doing that's helping the brand to stand out? I think there's a lot of t-shirt brands out there, but they're not doing it the way we're doing it. And that can be, you know, some of the things that I think we've excelled in, which is keeping a very clear message about who we are as a brand. What you see is what you get.

24:49We're not trying to be fancy. We're not trying to be high-end designers. We're not reinventing the wheel. We're giving you something that's already out there and making it perfect. And our tagline is you are perfect. That's there for a reason. We really feel like we're bringing a product to customers who appreciate simplicity, who appreciate the ease of being able to choose a garment and to be able to wear it season after season and to create an environment where it's just easy to buy and they understand it and we're approachable and we're authentic. And I think it really resonates with our end consumer.

25:27You're having extensive experience in fashion. I feel like both of you can teach a masterclass in this. How do you convey or tell the story of your experience to the customers? Or do you feel like that side of the story wasn't so important in the storytelling or the marketing efforts? The story is very, very important. We're trying to actually get better at telling our story because our customers love a story behind a brand. the brand has to have soul and we have soul we make mistakes and we've talked about our mistakes I've actually picked up the phone and called so many customers that you know I have complained because they didn't get their shipment on time or it was wrong or this was that you know whatever or they love the brand and I just pick up the phone because when there's a human being and a story behind the brand people love it that much more and there's nothing better than a story obviously your product has to be good, but you've got to humanize the brand.

26:26We're not these designers, right, Lisa, that are, you know, not approachable and not, you know, you can't talk to them. We love being on the front lines and having conversations with the people that buy our product. Yeah. Like I said earlier for wholesale and it was easy, you know, people knew who we were and our backgrounds and how far we've come and our experience and how to put that into the product. And that was easy. They were like, wow, Lisa with wholesale experience, Jen with branding experience to join forces and put out a product that that they both see, you know, envision is amazing.

27:00We want to try it. It was how do you then convey that message to the end consumer? And sometimes, you know, people are like, they think we're some big operation behind the scenes and they meet us and they're like, wow, you're at Perfect White Tea. And we're like, yeah, see how simple we are. We're real. We're human. We just love t-shirts. We're trying to pass that love on to everybody else. Yeah, and we're busy moms, too, on top of everything else. Going back to values, Lisa and I value our lifestyle. We value having personal time. I think it reflects in our company, our branding, our messaging, our crew, the people that we hire, the people that are on our team.