S2 Ep5: Season 2: The Fractional CMO Podcast - Kateesha Hembrow of BeKnown Academy

0:07Welcome to the CMO fractional marketing podcast, the fractional CMO podcast. I've forgotten what we've called it, something like that. My name is Simon Dell. I am your host. I'm also the CEO of CEMO. If you want to find out anything about us or any of our fractional chief marketing officers, you can go to CEMO.com. That's spelled C-E-M-O-H.com. You can find me on all the social networks. You can email me at simon at CEMO.com. I'm pretty easy to find. So, yep, please come and reach out um uh if you're interested in finding out more about what we do uh if you enjoy this podcast or any of the episodes of this podcast because there are lots of other episodes of this podcast um please rate and review us on spotify or apple podcasts or wherever you get your daily podcast fix um and uh that's pretty much about it today um we are talking at first well firstly let me welcome to the show a uh uh i was gonna say a friend of mine i don't know whether we're quite a friend stage we can go with friends we go way back um yeah we got way back all it earlier this year um katisha hembrow is it hembrow or hembrow did i got hembrow katisha hembrow um you are on the gold coast um give us the um give us the the 30 second katisha uh elevator pitch Yeah, beautiful.

1:41Thank you so much for the introduction. So my name is Katisha Hembrough and I'm the founder of the Bean Own Academy. I'm a personal branding LinkedIn coach and I've had the honor of coaching hundreds of people across 40 different industries, helping them to do anything from growing their brand to scale their existing business, helping sales professionals to generate more leads or helping people that are in a nine to five that is sucking the life out of them and they're wanting to escape that and launch their own business and they want to leverage their personal brand to do so. That was perfect.

2:16I didn't time it, but I suspect that was around about 30 seconds. But what we're going to talk about today, because obviously we've got a very sort of narrow focus in what we do at SEMO, is that we're going to talk about fractional chief marketing officers. So that's people that are operating as consultants or, you know, marketing strategists, but often operating under their own business under their own brand name and those kind of things um and about how to use linkedin to um grow their profile and essentially win clients or find find clients so um you and i have spoken about this before um and you know for us we're going to be regurgitating a lot of the conversation.

3:00But look, I want to start off by sort of saying, asking you the question, LinkedIn is, is LinkedIn still as important today as it has been in previous years? Yes. Short answer. Yes. Absolutely. I'm obviously a LinkedIn lady, so it's by far my favorite platform. And I did a post on this the other day and it's a little bit cheeky to say, but the reason that I love LinkedIn more, I guess, over the other platforms is for a couple of main reasons. One being is the decision makers are on LinkedIn. So if you want to get in front of the serious decision makers that can make calls, that's where you want to be.

3:45And the other one is, it's where the people with the money are at. It's simply like if you want well-paying clients and clients that are just gems to work with, LinkedIn is where they're going to be. And it's funny because everyone still jokes about LinkedIn. I saw a post the other day saying it was interesting that there isn't really a competitor for LinkedIn out there. All other sort of social networks seem to have evolved natural competitors, but LinkedIn is still sort of pretty much on its own. So probably the only one is maybe X. Like sometimes people, you know, jump between X, But even then, like I personally am not on there.

4:25I've just focused primarily on LinkedIn. Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah, I guess, yeah, I think I've actually just recently gone back on X for the first time in maybe two or three years just after, you know, kind of went through a sort of fair amount of turmoil and all those kind of things. So, but yeah, I mean, look, LinkedIn, LinkedIn's super important in terms of who's on there. Um, there's, there's lots of questions. I mean, there is lots of questions about how to do LinkedIn better and things like that, but you know, when you take over a client or when you start working with a client, what sort of, what sort of state do you find them in?

5:09I mean, you, you, you, there must be some common kind of things that they're doing wrong or, or, or things that they're just not doing at all. Yeah, really good question. So look, I would say that people come to me, I guess varying levels but I would say from a whole people are coming to me uh with a LinkedIn where honestly we need to dust the cobwebs off um so their profile for instance might be very bare uh not all the sections are filled out they're missing really key components or it's actually just not making sense what they've got on there it's it's not very clear as to what it is they do and who they help.

5:46The other thing I would say is they are most of the time too scared to actually post content and do direct outreach and message people on the platform. So I would say from a high level there, the three main problems, I guess, is their profile optimization, the lack of content or that maybe they're posting content but they're not getting results from it and they're not really doing much in terms of building relationships in the messages. Yeah. Okay. So let's start with the obvious one, the profile one. I did have to check your profile before I started this. And I'm still – have you sort of leapt in terms of the numbers that you've got?

6:31Because I thought we were pretty close and now you've just demolished me in numbers, Ketitia. Yeah. Yeah, so I've gone on a bit of a journey the last six months. And six months ago, if I think about, I think it was about May, April, May, roughly around there. I got a little bit complacent with my content, if I'm going to be honest. And I was having a look at that. And I was probably playing it a little bit safe. And I had done about 230 ,000 impressions. And content impressions aren't always the statistics you want to look at. But just to give you an idea of what's happened since then. So when I saw that and I realized, okay, like content's dropped off a bit, performance has dropped off a bit, and I lasered in and focused on my LinkedIn.

7:17And this has probably been the most polarizing, the loudest, the most opinionated I've been over the last three months. My content's almost at 1.4 million impressions in the last 90 days. So I've quadrupled my number of impressions. And the last couple of months I've been growing a couple thousand followers every month. So, yeah, since we've spoken, it's certainly really ramped up. Well, I was going to say because you have 14 ,000 and a half thousand followers. Yeah, that will easily cross over 15 by the end of the month. I'm just about to tick over 11. And so I'm like, I feel like I'm drifting behind you now.

7:59And I'm like, I'm going to have to catch up. I can do something about that. That's very upsetting me. um but okay so so getting that profile right and i again i remember when we last spoke you were really critiquing my profile and telling me all the things that i was doing wrong and i've probably not gonna fix them all so i don't you know um so but the the profile is the first the first step and again i know people joke about this and you know but it it really does pay dividends to get just all those little bits right, doesn't it? To give you an idea of how important it is, so up until it was about four or five weeks ago, I've never had a website.

8:46So when I started my entrepreneurial journey years and years ago with a different business, I invested$40 ,000 into a website and videography and I didn't make a single sale. Wow, yeah. And then with LinkedIn over the last couple of years, I said I'm not making that mistake again of getting a website and I turned my profile into a website and I funneled over half a million dollars through my LinkedIn profile in revenue yeah with no website up until five weeks ago so I'm not I'm not sharing that story to glow I'm just sharing it to show like how powerful your LinkedIn profile can be if you have it really well set up in order to bring in revenue and particularly if you're in early days of business or maybe you don't have the the cash flow yet to, you know, throw$40 ,000 into a website, you can turn your free LinkedIn profile into one.

9:38So let's also then just touch on the fact that, and again, I don't mean this to sound like a criticism when you say half a million dollars. How have you made money? Because obviously you're, from what I understand, you're, there's a lot of online training and education and things like that, that that's how you, how you drive your funnel and how you drive your revenue. Yeah. So I've got lots of different, I've got lots of different funnels. So people come in from all different places, but they primarily come through my LinkedIn profile. And yeah, I guess the revenue has come from my, my academy.

10:14So I coach people, um, whether that be privately or in a group coaching capacity, uh, I coach them on how to grow their brand and generate leads off the back of their LinkedIn profile as well. Yeah. So if I'm a, if I'm a, if I'm a freelance, if I'm a fractional CMO and I'm looking for, you know, I'm looking for those bigger clients, those ones that might be spending, you know, six,$7 ,000 a month retainers, maybe, maybe more than that. Right. That's going to be a bit of a different funnel. It's not, they're not necessarily going to so so okay so how would you how would you be converting you know how would you be converting somebody like that if that's what if that was your target market if you wanted someone on a 12 month retainer spending that kind of that's that kind of cash so you're still leveraging your LinkedIn profile as a way to funnel them in but your sales process might look different I mean for me at the moment I'm going through a bit of a transition phase where I am actually able to make sales without having to get on sales calls with people.

11:18I still get on them, but for somebody who's perhaps looking at a market where they're paying them five, 10, 20 grand a month to work with them, all it is is simply getting them onto a booked call from their LinkedIn profile. And you could do that in a couple of different ways. It could be, I used to do this, so I used to have a booking link on my LinkedIn profile. And my clients can invest anywhere from two grand to 20, 30 grand to work with me. So they would just book in through the link, through a Calendly link, and they'd book in a call. Or you might perhaps send them to your inbox. You might have a call to action on your profile to say, hey, if you'd like to learn more, either send me an email or I like to deal with it as quickly as possible.

12:06And I like when people actually just message me on LinkedIn and you might just pop on there, send me a message if you'd like to learn more. And then you qualify them in the inbox and then you book them on a call. Okay. I have this thing in my head and we can argue this out now because I do like a good argument on a podcast. I love a good argument. We've got one. We're going to do a podcast next week where we're just going to argue for an hour. I'm so looking forward to that. I'll warm you up for it then. Yeah, sadly we're going to argue about marketing, whereas I'd rather be arguing about, like, you know, I don't know, politics or aliens or something like that.

12:41But anyway. um my my always my my preconception and this is a preconception right um maybe it's a misconception whatever okay is that the higher ticket people the ones with the bigger budgets the ceos that are hiding behind a desk and a you know a receptionist or a you know va pa whatever that they're not going to book online through a Calendly link, right? That's my debate topic. You now need to convince me otherwise. No, and it could be – and it depends on your target market as well as like how you get in front of people. So with maybe the CEO of like Microsoft or BHP, for instance, right, you're not going to get a meeting with the CEO of BHP like he's not going to be gone and I'm going to stay here because I'm assuming currently the CEO is is a man um I'm just trying to think of back in the days when I was there I was like is it a man or a woman um but they that you know you're right they're not going to they're not going to click onto your profile and they're not going to um they're not going to book in through a gallery link but But what you do is you connect with them so they still see your content and they pop up.

14:07And you'd actually still be surprised with how responsive people are in higher roles. Oh, I think all the balloons. We've got a celebration happening here. People respond. If you break the mold and you can stand out, and there's other ways to do it. And I'll never forget, there was somebody that I really admired and I wanted to work with. And we'd connected on LinkedIn and they'd been seeing my stuff on LinkedIn. They knew who I was. And I sent them a gift to their office. Right. And it was a bit cheeky, but I sent them a gift. It was a bunch of cupcakes. And I had half of the cupcakes branded with their company logo and the other half with a photo of a ghost.

14:50And I wrote a little message on there and I said, hey, such and such, notice you're a bit of a ghost on LinkedIn, which I think is a shame because you've got an incredible story and a lot of people you can help. would you be open to having a chat? Now, this was a very, very busy man, like big company turning over tens, probably hundreds of millions of dollars. That man was on the phone to me within three minutes of those cupcakes being delivered. So it's not necessarily, and again, that was just a way of me leveraging LinkedIn for them to see me to be top of mind and then pairing something else on the back end of it.

15:26But if you were just to use LinkedIn, don't be afraid to message people, but you have to think about how can you stand out from the rest? Because these CEOs or these people in big positions of power are getting peppered with messages. So it's really about for me, whether it's on LinkedIn or whether it's in real life or somewhere else, how can you break the mold? I think you've touched on the point that I would probably make to most fractional CMOs is that LinkedIn, it is for you, but it may not be for other people, right? but LinkedIn is part of a marketing strategy. It is, you've managed to build a platform, you've managed to build a business and a very successful business on the basis of the platform itself, right?

16:18Yeah. And that's not, and you see a lot of other successful businesses that have built businesses based on the platform. Instagram, you know, has been the birthplace of many good e-commerce businesses. You know, LinkedIn is the birthplace of good, coaching businesses and educational businesses and all those kind of things, right? For some people that being a fractional CMO, LinkedIn is part of a strategy, is a broader strategy. And in your case, that broader strategy included cupcakes, right? For that particular person, yeah. Yeah, but for other fractional CMOs, what I'm nervous about saying is saying to them, you can have your complete success like tisha did just using linkedin um my preference when i'm sort of saying to these people is that use linkedin as part of a broader strategy and it it might be a big part of that broader strategy but use it as a part of a broader strategy and for instance if for some reason you can't get directly to the ceo it could be a matter of connecting with people around the CEO as well, like internally within that company.

17:32Like sometimes people are just generally very hard to get a hold of, but I also equally feel that you would be surprised of who you can get in front of when you're bold enough with your strategy. So, so let's say cupcakes aside, what are you saying to people that is, what do you, what do you say that you feel resonates with people? If you're, you know, if we do want to just reach out and say, cause I get them all the time I'm getting the hey can we jump on a call and stuff like this and depending on the mood I'm in I either just delete them or tell them to politely decline in a way yes um yeah but what do you find resonates for in those conversations that you have with people on LinkedIn for me it's a couple of things so it's a combination of like I always preach to my clients give yourself the warmest reason to reach out and so what I mean by that is leverage what you can to get in front of them.

18:27Maybe they viewed your profile. Maybe they engaged in your content. Maybe you saw they posted a really good piece of content. But use something that will connect with them. And also be human. Even though they're a CEO of BHP, they're still human. And where people go wrong is, one, they typically just do the hard pitch as soon as they connect, and it's just straight into the pitch. It's just very robotic. and you can tell it's just being copied and pasted and it's about just being being human and connecting with people I know and people would also be surprised at like even things like how using banter is like an amazing way to like like I accidentally called somebody the wrong name in a message last week sometimes my LinkedIn glitches out and the inbox shuffles up and I called him the name of the person above anyway I died I was like oh my goodness this is terrible well, look, I've just called this poor man the wrong name.

19:26But I just took it in my stride and I obviously apologized and then I made a bit of a joke about it and we've been like bantering back and forth about it. And then halfway through the conversation, he was like, hey, like actually I need your help with personal branding and like a whole conversation came out of that. And it was such a beautiful reminder of I feel we also really overthink and overcomplicate outreach to people. and it's like just think about if they were standing there physically in front of you like what would you say yeah i yeah i i my outreach my sort of opening um you know actually how i reached out to you do you remember how what i said to you i scrolled i actually this is a really good example i scrolled down your profile because i was looking for some more podcasts to be interviewed on and I scrolled right down the bottom and we had a mutual mate Dave Dave's a really good mate of mine and that was one of the first things I mentioned in the message I said something like hey so Dave um you know Dave I'm looking for podcasts to be interviewed on oh David Neil yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but but see what I did there I made a connection and and obviously years come on and this is the second that's an interesting look that that's an interesting tactic because i mean with 10 10 11 000 people in my i don't know you know i i probably know 0.1 percent of the actual people who are connected to me but um yeah david neil i think that that works when i think that works when you see somebody who's made a comment on their profile the you know because then you know that there's actual there's an actual connection there but i mean for somebody to leave like dave left you a pretty lovely testimony i was like that's not going to be some random who doesn't sorry yes that's where you sorry yes of course no no no no no you are yeah you're 100 right yeah absolutely absolutely so yeah i look i mean and i've i've i've done that in the past and reached out to be i've had people call me the wrong name um and i'm normally i i look at that because if it's if it's a formula response or it's an opening message i'm like well that's kind of unforgivable right you should have got that one better if it's a response to a continued conversation they've just got my name wrong i can i can completely understand that there was one guy who then when i told him he given he he he called me the wrong name um and and you say that banter thing he he would turn around and carried on calling me the wrong name just uh oh yeah this guy gave me a new name as well yeah i think i'm rachel now you know you're right i think that it's that it's that banter i think you mentioned really early on about a lot of people are scared and i think a lot of people are scared look but you know we're all humans we're all scared of rejection um you know it's a question of of how do you openly start a conversation with someone in real life versus how do you openly start a conversation with link you know on linkedin and a lot of people are scared of both you know at networking events people sort of sit in a corner with their drink hoping nobody will talk to them um you know it it's very it's hard yeah look you you and i both have you know enough personality to be able to, I mean, you know, have those opening conversations.

22:52Yeah. You know, we're both sort of mentally built in a certain way that we're not shy about opening a, you know, opening a conversation. Yeah, exactly. But a lot of people are scared of that, aren't they? Oh, absolutely. How do you coach them to sort of get over that? It's funny, this is a big theme at the moment, not even just with my clients, but just with conversations I'm having with people outside around, I guess you could call it maybe that imposter syndrome feeling, right? And just like really lacking confidence. And, you know, often I have people say to me like, oh, you know, you've been really brave and like courageous.

23:28And it's like, I'm still terrified to do these things, but I just show up. And often I'm actually running a masterclass, funny enough, tomorrow around brave branding, but people try and escape this feeling of imposter syndrome. And I actually kind of think in a way that's a very entitled mentality, because to me, if you're trying to get away from imposter syndrome, it's like the reason you have it is because you're just about to do something new that you haven't done before. So you're lacking the confidence because you don't have the reps. So how can you expect to feel confident? Like to me, it's actually very logical.

24:04It's like, how can you actually expect to feel confident to post content, to go to the networking event, to speak on stage when you haven't got the evidence. And for me, I guess, like where I get my confidence to show up and do all those things has come from the back of doing the reps for years, going to the events, you know, years ago and feeling sick about meeting new people. It's posting the content and feeling uncomfortable and doing it anyway. And it's a choice. It's a five-second choice of bravery and courage that you have to make. It's a quote I've used many, many times in other podcasts and conversations is that repetition breeds excellence.

24:49It breeds confidence as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, actually, it probably breeds confidence first before it breeds excellence because I think for excellence, you've got to have confidence. I don't think you can't skip. that skip that step you have to be completely confident about what you're doing so um yeah look I 100 % agree with you I think it's um it's just doing the same thing day in day out getting better at it and and each time you post and each time you engage or each time you add somebody you improve what you're doing by one percent you know oh absolutely do you know what i'm talking about it's a massive difference isn't it i i always tell my clients particularly if they're fresh on linkedin your content is going to suck it's going to suck and it's going to suck a little more and then you'll get better and it's going to suck a little little less and then you'll get good and then you'll get great and it's a process and i even feel laughing about this the other week and i said to him i said you guys need to embrace the suck like because it's nobody escapes it the cringe like you know the cringy feelings and moments like that is is the stepping stone to success yeah let's let's talk about some exact sort of tactical stuff so um number one you've got to get your you've got to get your profile up to date photos and anyone that needs a good example go and look at Katisha's site it's it's so I think you are so well branded as you and for you know from the time I've met you in the flesh and we've we've been on on here together your I think your branding is really well defined but that branding needs to go through the whole profile doesn't it oh absolutely yeah and it and needs to feel authentic as well because what I would hate is for somebody to get on a call like a discovery call with me for instance and then go oh like you're nothing like I thought you were from online like to me like that's that's a bad thing that's a mismatch not that it happens but yeah it's important that you're authentic you're establishing your authority and it's really clear around the problems you solve and who you help as well yeah yeah and we and we do a lot of when I I work with a lot of very intelligent people and often I find myself saying to them, you know, like, dumb it down, dumb it down, like whether that's their content or some of the language that they use in their about section on their profile, because you just want to make sure that it's really clear to your audience what it is you do.

27:32And particularly if you're in like a technical role as well, you just need to be really mindful of that. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, So getting the profile right, getting the photo right, the banner right, all the sections. I'm not going to go through all the sections. I've got some free training on that. If anybody is listening to this and they're feeling nervous about the state of their profile, go onto my LinkedIn profile. And in the featured section, there's a guide. There's a training to show you exactly what to put in your profile. Okay, cool. All right. And we'll share that afterwards on the notes as well because I think that would be useful.

28:14But I don't want to go through every section because the sections are there for a reason. Get them filled in properly. Get them filled out. But let's talk about content because we mentioned that a few times. And I think that's part of the fear, the imposter syndrome fear is people are like, what do I post? Or, you know, how do I make comments on other people's posts without seeing me Cheesy. So those first two questions and probably a third question for you, is it okay to be argumentative out there? Because, I mean, I know I am a lot. I would say from that argument, there's nothing wrong with having, like you actually need to have an opinion because if you don't have an opinion, you're going to sound like everybody else and you're going to blend in with the crowd.

29:07so I would say like having an opinion is important but you also don't want to be part of the French but like that LinkedIn wanker who is just you know being annoying in everyone's comments and just being like really argumentative you know what I mean you don't want to do that but I do I do highly encourage you to share your opinion and be respectful about it as well like I've had people you know disagree with my content and I've actually commented back and just said like thank you so much for being respectful with how you've gone about it because i appreciate not everybody has obviously the same opinions as mine take me back to those first two questions you asked sorry um i've forgotten what they were no i've been in the imposter syndrome which i used you doing a great job yeah i know i was gonna say well see this is this is this is why i don't plan anything because i have great i have great questions and i can never remember the great questions.

30:05But no, I mean, we're talking about content and like, I guess probably the question then I would ask from there is everybody wants their content to go viral. Everybody wants the LinkedIn algorithm to see what they're sharing, right? What's the trick there? Are there any tricks or are we just all kind of crossing our fingers and hoping for the best? Yeah, look, The LinkedIn algorithm has definitely been doing some weird things over the last 12 to 18 months. My, I guess, like rule of thumb is I honestly don't stress about the algorithm. Like it can change to the drop of a hat. I focus on who is an ideal client of mine and creating content that's going to be valuable for them.

30:47Something that I have personally noticed, particularly over the last three months with me quadrupling my content impressions, is I'm finding my content that's going viral now. is when people are commenting, like I'm getting a lot of comments and they're jumping on quickly and commenting. So I would encourage you, I guess, when you're creating content to really have a think about your call to engagement at the bottom of the post. So what question are you going to ask to get people to comment? Because, yeah, the more comments I'm getting on my content, the more viral they go. And virality is not always a great thing as well.

31:26I wouldn't tell you to set the intention of trying to go viral. I have clients that start with me with 300 to 500 followers and they generate a dozen inbound leads within their first month of working with me. And that's just off the back of really good content and not necessarily going viral. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's probably how, I mean, I think, again, you and I had a conversation last time and I think I still I still topped you in in the fact that I've got the most viral post between the two of us yeah what was it again how many was it just under a million yeah because that was it you were gonna that was it you shared it in the hope that we get it over a million and I haven't do you know what I need to go and check that we'll check that

32:14view analytics uh here we go yeah it it was it was something insane like almost a million a million people and this is the thing right it's like sometimes you also just can't pick what is going to going to go viral i had one that got seen by almost 200 000 people a couple years ago it was a spare of the moment post that i threw up on a thursday afternoon yeah and it just blew up yeah mine was mine was a picture of a pizza you know it was insane um you know why why that went viral was you know absolutely confusing as hell to me um but i do find pictures do well uh there we go no you didn't see you didn't help me katisha uh my leading one was 10 months ago the it was the chocolate bars chocolate bars in walworth i was just saying oh it was the chocolate bars and you said the pizza i thought the pizza got 650 the pizza got 650 000 we know what everybody's favorite now is yeah um and then basically see with me it was anything where i'm i'm i'm picking on a brand that is uh you know a loved brand or a well-recognized brand in the australian market so you know cabarees walworth dominoes coals all those kind of things it was you know that's where i see i've seen viral success yeah but to your point that doesn't necessarily turn it into dollars in the banking account like That's the reality of it.

33:50I've been very intentional with my content over the last couple months, and it was funny. I've been doing a lot of storytelling as of recent as well, and I think that's also a really powerful way to gain credibility and trust with your audience. And coincidentally, I had a group coaching call just last week with my guys, and I'd posted a piece of content the week prior, and it was probably one of my most vulnerable and raw posts, if I'm honest with myself. and it was one that made me quite uncomfortable to share. But anyway, it went viral and I was just talking through it with my clients about how, you know, like it builds trust and whatnot.

34:31And a new member that had just come into the academy that morning turned around and he said, oh, yeah, that's how you got me. And he laughed and I said, oh, what do you mean? And he said, oh, well, like he hadn't been following me up until that point that that post had just come up in his feed and he's like, I just appreciated like how honest you were. and he said it really resonated with me and I liked it and I connected with you and you know he said he said to me I was talking to another LinkedIn coach literally two nights beforehand and I didn't really vibe with them um and then yeah he said your posts came up he said we connected we had a quick chat and he was a client within less than 20 minutes yeah yeah yeah look I think there's there's there's a lot of parallels between what you do on LinkedIn versus what you do in your real life in terms of how you market yourself you know how you market your business and we you've talked about storytelling you talked about you know being genuine and authentic and all those kind of things I think for me and I look at the difference between I look at David Neal right we both we both follow David Neal he's done something insane like what 50 60 000 I think Like he's closer to 70 now, but yeah, he's got quite a few.

35:4370 ,000 people on LinkedIn. I suspect the last part of his business he gets from LinkedIn, right? He does. The thing I find, the difference that I would intrinsically say between him and me is the word discipline, right? Whenever I see David's posts, he is disciplined in terms of he's within his brand. He's talking about his subject matter. He's consistent. He's consistently posting. Consistently. There is a level of consistency, discipline. I mean, he's ex-army, so he would be, you know. But he's staying within his lane and he's talking very consistently about things that are close to what he does in business, right?

36:31Yep. The challenge I have, and this would be my criticism of myself, right, is that I will just go off on tangents about stuff that interests me. Yeah. But isn't necessarily within the frame, the same frame of what I should be doing from a fractional CMO perspective.

36:54How would you, if you were coaching me, if you were trying to rain me. I'm going to have to put my coaching hat on here. I'm interested to hear what you would say to me because I think I have a problem. Katisha, I have a problem. But if I was in your group, I'd be standing up going, yeah, last week I talked about chocolate bars. And people would go, well, what the fuck's that got to do with being a fractional CMO? And I'd go, nothing. Yeah, yeah. It's easy to get distracted, isn't it? It is easy to get distracted. I think my question, first of all, would be, well, why are you trying to grow your brand?