Your Algorithm Can’t Give You Taste with Robert Castaño

0:00Robert Castaño: Ladies and gentlemen, you're listening to the last advertising podcast of all time. This is it, our last conversation. It's all done until probably next week. So enjoy this guest. Robert Castaño, what the frick is up? You are a account specialist over at Barker. We met a few weeks ago, but I'm excited for this conversation. Thank you so am I, man. I'm happy to do it. Super honored to share time, space. We already were talking beforehand and we were like, all right, let's just cut the cameras on. Let's just go. I think it's going to be more of a conversation more than anything else. And I think those are the most interesting things.

0:34Robert Castaño: It's kind of just like a creative session and just talking and jamming out. And we'll have some references and there'll be follow-ups and all of the things in between. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, this is the last advertising podcast ever to be made. There's too many of them out there. So we're going to treat this like this is it. We're going to end off with a bang here. I want to hear your raw, unfiltered advice. What are you passionate about? whatever you want to talk about let's dive into it right away we were talking about taste before this now you are at parker you went through the blac internship all good things here but let's just start off heavy yeah what is on your mind about taste today i think i think what's important about taste is in a world where it feels like everything is being served to us literally and figuratively, right?

1:23Robert Castaño: Like if I want to say, I want to go out to a spot, give me 10 spots that I could go to. I kind of want a Japanese cuisine, but then afterwards, I kind of want to go hear house music in Brooklyn. Everything is served to you. I think with so much information, we can become inundated and kind of lose ourselves and be like, what do I really like? Let me go outside. Let me hit up a friend. I know I'm in the agency world, right? Let me just hit up a few people from every department. What are you reading? What are you listening to? What are you wearing? What's the last interesting thing? What's the thing that made you probably feel uncomfortable, whether it was a documentary or a series and why?

1:59Robert Castaño: And all of those things inform our taste, whether good, bad, because we can see things and be like, I don't want to do that. Or we can see things and be like, that's awesome. Let me lean into that more. And then there's like a thousand other things that you can find. And I feel like that's when the internet and the whole algorithm kind of world helps you out. Because if you like one thing, it's going to definitely show you a thousand other things. And that comes from Spotify to TikTok and to Instagram. I always tell people at a time, they say, I hate my algorithm. And I feel like I may have stolen some Gary Vee, but you go, you start over again.

2:35Robert Castaño: You find whatever it is. You like hip hop music, you go to the rap Instagram page. Go like seven posts. Then you go to our new generation music. You like seven posts. By the time we refresh it, it's going to be a brand new thing in that niche kind of thing. So I feel like we have the power to find what we like, but we also have to like get back to like feeling like the Internet doesn't exist. Going outside, you were talking about like touching grass. Like last week, I just went and I walked through Central Park. You know what? I just need to go walk. I just need to see something. I want to see a good outfit.

3:07Robert Castaño: I want to get a good cup of coffee. I just want to just be led by my eyes and my ears. The things that we trusted before, everything was kind of like, here's this and here's that. And this is why you need it. You know, this, I think that's the problem right now with the algorithms. It's feeding me stuff I like. Don't get me wrong. Like, I love my algorithm. Yeah. But it's narrowly defined. Like, every once in a while, I might get like a little new sub thing. And like, I might go down a little rabbit hole with my algorithm. them, but it is being fed to me by technology for sure. It's good. Like I have no complaints, but it's not growing me.

3:46It's not like exposing me to new things. I have so many questions, Robert, but I'm going to actually kind of just, I want to get your advice for me specifically. Oh, I would love to. Like, cause I think like there's probably gonna, for the students out there, the recent grads or anybody that they're, they love advertising and marketing culture. Sure, you're going to be drawn to this episode. But I can imagine a lot of them might feel the same way. They're caught in the same algorithm. They know that there's passions. They have interests that spark them perhaps, but they don't have the time or the resources necessarily to build that time out to explore.

4:26So for me specifically, or a student out there, or somebody that's in an agency or working, they're trying to break into advertising, they might not have a lot of time. what can we do just to step back and to explore and actually stay committed to it or is commitment overrated to this like what do we do i think commitment to this is essential i think it's

4:50Robert Castaño: super essential because i think the superpower that everyone can bring in to any space is your perspective especially hyper focusing in on advertising i think advertising outside of being like an artist is one of the most welcoming spaces meaning like everything that we'd like we can bring to the table because at one point or another we can use that as a reference even if we're working on a brand or project that's not necessarily correlated to it right like i'm a big music guy i'm big into wwe and ufc and sports so i watch a lot of different things that intersect with brands that i work on because every every space has their niches and they have their tones and they have how things grow in the spaces.

5:32Robert Castaño: So as a consumer, you can always bring that information over to whatever project you're working on. But specifically to what you were saying, I think what we could do, and I think it actually low-key helps humanity. If you see someone interesting, just have a conversation with them, right? Like if you see someone at a coffee shop that has a really cool hat on, like the hat I think I have on, you just ask them randomly, listen, what is a podcast that you're listening to? What music do you like? Like, and it's a good way to start a conversation. I'm actually looking for new things to watch and listen to.

6:05Robert Castaño: What's a good series that I could watch? Or give me five songs and then you could just add them to your Spotify and kind of just go from there. I think all of those things are important because they go back to something that's inherent. We know what we're attracted to and what we like when we see it, right? Like, if we're going out somewhere, it's like, oh, that smells good. Let's follow our senses. I think not to be like the world is coming to an end. The unfortunate part about everything being served to us is that we kind of start to distrust ourselves a little bit and we start to rely on those things.

6:40Robert Castaño: They're a tool. Great. I know what I like. That's great. But it shouldn't tell me what I like. It shouldn't give me like, oh, this is what you need to do. It can suggest it. Right. Like, oh, suggested song. You're watching Netflix. Here's a suggested thing. If you like the Cowboys documentary, here's 10 other documentaries like that. But I think we can start to trust and believe whatever it is we like, right? We see someone interesting. Hey, how are you? That's a very, you know, everyone loves a compliment. Nice shoes. And that's a good jacket. I'll be interested. Is there something interesting that you're watching?

7:14Robert Castaño: What was the last interesting thing that you watched? A barista? It doesn't matter, like, whatever space you're in. But I think conversation and starting there is always interesting to me because you just never know. Those rabbit holes lead to things. And then we start to trust in ourselves like, okay, that wasn't it. Or, oh, that was interesting. I ran into somebody the other day. Like, you know what I mean? You can run into Barnes and Nobles or anywhere that you are. As long as you're outside and engaging with people, I think you can find inspiration. Of course, I'm lucky, right? Like, I live in New York.

7:43Robert Castaño: But I think there's other interesting places in the world, no matter where you are. Or like a DM. like if you see something yeah if you're not in like a new york city maybe you're in the suburb or wherever you're from i love this so you've already justified like why taste matters especially for advertising i think we all agree with that yeah you know there's no further need to justify i think we got that and but then you go and say if you're impressed by some someone or if you're impressed by someone go ask them about the thing like i'll do that with you in a little bit but And then you have that conversation here.

8:18Something that I was reading is writing. Write what you like and what you don't like. If there's an article or an ad or a piece of art, even just writing a paragraph why you like something or why you don't like something is a really good exercise to get it out of your mind there, too. So I'll add that to the list, too. Absolutely. And I know some people collect, like they might save like posts, whether it's on Instagram or to Pinterest, or they'll save it somewhere in like a file of their own taste and what they like. They can reference that. I think for copywriters, strategists, I think anybody in advertising could start just collecting things that they like.

8:58Robert Castaño: And I'll add on by saying to my account people, right? Like, I think it's good when you write it down because you can actually explain and articulate it. sometimes when we're seeing something we love a color palette we love a visual direction but when you write it down you almost grill yourself so therefore whenever you're bringing it to a partner within the agency you can articulate it whether it's the creative way to articulate it or not you can kind of put some emotion behind that and i think that ultimately becomes a tool that you can carry into any kind of thing because now it's just not i like it why i don't know i like it but you actually ask yourself and then that goes outside of things because then you can kind of find the rabbit hole that's like oh i did like this because of the way it was shot oh i do like this because the way it looks and the color palette and the way the mood so a lot and this educating ourselves is great it's like an off the grid version of like trying to like navigate and understand what it is that we like and why we like it that's great i guess what you know it's hard for me it's like how do you even articulate if you don't have the vocabulary of like the specific style or the genre like do you have any advice there just to have the vocab down like i'm so ill-equipped to defend why i like a piece even just an ad sometimes yeah like i don't make ads i i spent my whole career asking people questions and now i'm in a situation where i have to sometimes rate an ad or why do i like this and sometimes i struggle with it what advice do you have there?

10:28Robert Castaño: I think the best part about that is that it's very, it's the most natural thing, right? I do feel like when we're in the space of creating advertising and creative and engaging with brands and people, we kind of forget that we're a consumer as well. So I kind of love the fact when people don't know, they don't have, they're not well equipped with the words. I don't think it should limit you because as someone, when I broke into the advertising space, I was previously in hospitality. That was one of the things that kind of hindered my growth. I had great mentors. I was like, no, no, no. You're here for a reason.

10:59Robert Castaño: All the vocabulary and the jargon, you'll learn it. As long as you can find a way to articulate it, it doesn't necessarily have to be like the whole thing. But if you do feel like, you know what? I need to learn and get better. Asking questions, man. Going back to the conversation about just asking people what they like and stuff like that. It's all, it's just information, right? And we're here to give each other information. And hopefully if people are in a space where everyone wants to see people develop that may be what you're not the best at, but you might have impeccable taste and your mood board might be sick and you can bring it to anyone within the space that you work with and they'll ask you questions about it.

11:37Robert Castaño: So it's just about understanding where you are. If you're not great at it, asking questions, maybe this is when algorithms and AI and all of that stuff can help you kind of learn the words and the phrasing and stuff like that. But I think it's just simply put, it's a one conversational way of learning. But at the same time, it's good to almost keep that. It's almost like keeping an innocence because when people are watching ads, they're not thinking about it with an artistic eye. I'm showing something to my dad. They're not going to tell me the pal and stuff like that. They're going to say it's good.

12:09Robert Castaño: I've liked it. It made me feel good. So if you could keep some of that, but still in your back pocket, start to learn those phrases, I think you'll be dual equipped because you almost keep, you stay grounded in what people who watch it are feeling as well. Yeah. So do you think it's possible for someone to have good taste? I think so, because I feel like now I am a self-proclaimed student in Rick Rubin. I think so, because I feel like everything is good taste. It's just based on what you like. Right. I understand, you know, people are trained musicians, people go to art school, design school, and people are well versed in a lot of different things.

12:49Robert Castaño: and their taste is super valid and it's trained. But sometimes you don't need that to have good taste. You like what you like. I feel like as long as you like it for the reasons you like it, and that said a lot but didn't say anything, that's all that matters to you. You have to have like a POV. If you have a strong conviction, I think that's it. And when I'm talking with people in the ad industry, working in agencies, if they are hiring juniors, which that's a whole other conversation. It's so hard to get a job. That's what we call breaking and entering, right? But what they're looking for is somebody with that strong conviction.

13:26And I know for a fact, Wyden Kennedy doesn't really care if you're classically trained in advertising. I just talked with the group account director for Ford, and his advice, if you want to break into Wyden, was you have to have strong conviction and be yourself. That was pretty much it. You can come from any walk of life at Wyden and Kennedy, which is one of the best attitudes of all time. but like you show up there they're expecting you they're hiring you for a reason to bring your taste to the table they're hiring carl lieberman who's the cco over there you know he had this big pivotal realization he was writing for ads when he first started he he wrote for he wrote he started a magazine before he started working at wide and kennedy that's how he got found i think it was about shoes whether it was nike shoes whatever type of shoes he had like this shoe magazine i believe.

14:19And one of his mentors within Wyden was like, you're writing ads for writing ads sake. And then he pointed to his magazine. It's like, write like that. Like start writing like your style that you're passionate about. And that flipped the switch to him. So I think it's all about that conviction, like reinforcing why this conversation is so important.

14:40Robert Castaño: 100 % source material, right? Like I was watching, have you ever seen Last Chance U before on Netflix? No, I know about it, but I've never watched it. It's incredible. I was watching the basketball season one, and I saw a lot of players had, like, the Colby's on. And I just remember how when Colby brought the certain style of shoe that was inspired by, like, soccer shoes, the whole basketball community was like, you can't do this. This isn't how they are. Basketball sneakers are supposed to be high top. But because his source material was being raised in Italy, soccer, football, to my international people.

15:12Robert Castaño: But it's like all of those things. You bring in a different perspective, and that's the superpower. And that explains why Wyden and Kennedy are who they are, right? Like, there's one advantage that everyone and anyone can have when stepping into advertising without having experience. It's taste and POV. If you know what you like and you can explain why you like it, I think it gives you a superpower. Because you can always bring it across in whatever it is you do. Like, it doesn't matter what it is. There's always going to be some through line that you can always bring through. You may not be able to use it, right?

15:41Robert Castaño: Like, if you're working on a campaign, different kind of pocket of the world. but there's still certain things that ring true throughout everything. And that's feeling. I think with ads in general, right, like we all want to feel something, whether it's sadness, whether it's joy, whether it's inspiration, or it's luxury, feeling is the through line, right? And I feel like in a lot of different spaces, if not in all spaces, the goal of everything is to feel. So a thousand percent. I'm in agreement with you for sure. Like I think it's very important. Conviction is everything. Conviction and POV.

16:13Robert Castaño: And I love that too. I can't say it enough. I love that tool by just writing down what it is that you like that can help you expand on it more and help you find and search. And like, where can I find stuff like this? So incredible. I love it. I love it. So I want to get back to your story. I know we didn't really even talk about it. I want to understand how you you have so much knowledge, wisdom. It seems like a lot of experience just from this conversation. But how did you break into advertising? What was your story? You said you worked in retail, I believe, just not too long ago. before you worked in hospitality i went through the latter man i worked in retail before i ended up in hospitality working in hotels on the sales side i was lucky enough to enter the blac program in 2022 the background just a little more context to that i make music so writing was always my passion and that's kind of how i got into like the idea that i can actually be like a copywriter so a great friend of mine worked at noble people and he's like well you write you're a writer you kind to do social media stuff, you could definitely do this copywriter thing.

17:14Robert Castaño: So I went in as a copywriter, but then having conversations and speaking to people, they were telling me about account and what it is that accounts do. And it intersected with everything that I had done before. So then I found myself during the process of trying to get a job with a pretty thin portfolio, like I'm going to continue to try to do this, but let me do an interview in account just to see where it lands. Hey, if I don't get in, I don't get in, but at least I can say I tried. I was lucky enough I got selected as an account and then when I got into my first agency there were so many great mentors there that helped cultivate my skills and it helped me realize that all of my experience on the creative side loans itself so well to being an account because as the world continues to evolve the classic traditional roles of like you're an account you do this you're a creative director you do this everything you're a strategist you do this all of these worlds intermingle and the quicker that you can understand what it is that someone else does and kind of get that experience maybe not doing it the better suited you are not only for just flow and fluidity within the work but just the understanding of what everybody does because then I can understand what you're going through and then we can kind of collab as a team to first have that unity because I think that's the most important part I think nothing comes out great unless there's like a cohesive team behind it, trying to move forward.

18:33Robert Castaño: No different than in sports, right? Like all the coordinators work with each other. And then you have people communicating on offense and defense, speaking specifically to football. But like, that's what's super important. So for me, ended up in a count and I found my sweet spot because of my background. And I was lucky enough to work at small shops where I've really got to see what everyone does and see that through line and that thread and work as bases to where something you said earlier too, super important. I'm able to bring myself. So me being in spaces where I'm able to be myself and bring all of my experiences in, it just loans itself to infinite growth and just a great time, man.

19:12Interesting. Interesting. So the your initial break in path or vision was writing copywriting. Is that correct? got it got it do you you know for some people like it's almost like you're submitting to account management yeah um do you did you ever feel that way when you took the account management track uh as opposed to the copywriting track no because i so this part of the story that's very important

19:45Robert Castaño: that i think it kind of ties into this the first year i submitted to the blac program i didn't get in which was in 2021 so when i went for the second time i said i just got to continue the path i'm gonna find myself somewhere where it makes sense so although i got shut down and i was still in hospitality scene and trying to get in the game that's important because i had to trust the process the same thing as when i ended up on the account side at first i was like i don't know how this is going to look but then as time progressed i was like oh this is uh this is how this is where I'm supposed to be.

20:19Robert Castaño: My background allows me to have different conversations with the creative team. I'm still doing outside projects. So I'm able to continue to build that muscle. But now I can kind of match it with things that I look at, the way I see the world too, which is super important, which I think serves me well as an account person being stuck to the details and mixing those things together. So I'm lucky enough that I kind of trusted the process. But I think that's another thing that's important, too, in advertising. You may get in as one thing, but you ultimately may want to move into another space. The most important thing is to get in and learn.

20:55Robert Castaño: It may not be great in the beginning. You may feel like, nah, this isn't for me. But what I would say is continuously learning the role is going to help you, even if it doesn't help you in the moment. Totally. Like in two years, you're going to be like, oh, because I came in as a strategist, I can understand why they're presenting this brief this way and why they keep picking away at the work. And it's not an adversarial thing. It's just that this is the way that a strategist must work. So I think it's super important. I think that's like vital to anything. This episode is brought to you by The Shipyard, which is a full service marketing and communications agency, ladies and gentlemen.

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22:21If you want to learn more, visit theshipyard.com where they have coordinated strength and unshakable results. I remember my first internship was in media planning. Uh-uh, not for me. Like, terrible, terrible for me. But that was good because it got first, it taught me how to be in a corporate setting or, you know, first job, right? And then my first full-time job was remote COVID mid pandemic working for my parents house. And I remember, you know, the structure of the agency was not for me. It was, I was in PR and it was very hierarchical. And I remember in the pandemic sitting in my, the room I grew up in just like pounding the table because I was so upset with my role, and I did not like it.

23:19I did not like waking up that first job. And I left after five months. I couldn't do it. And I took another opportunity, and that led to where I'm at today. But I guess what do you say to the people out there that, whether it's their first internship or their first job, that they are in the same position I was or maybe are upset with that first role.

23:49Robert Castaño: I think it's very much I would say like when you're dating someone, you got to date all the worst people to know exactly what it is that you want. I think the benefit of that is being in a space that's like, oh, I don't like this. And going back to the thing you said before, writing down why you don't like it. Understanding that it's just not the role that's not good for you. It's the people. It's the structure. It's the way it's set up. So therefore, when you're interviewing for other agencies, you know exactly what to ask for, because now you're hyper focused on what kind of culture do you guys have?

24:18Robert Castaño: And like outside of just like we have a great culture is like, yeah, but tell me more about it. Let me lean into it. You know, you know what to look for. Exactly. Let me speak. Can I speak to other people? How many people can I speak to? Because after a while, you kind of get the sense of what kind of people are there. So I think like every bad experience, it's trash in the moment, but it does help you understand, oh, my next role, I don't want this. Oh, yeah. I don't want this. This is exactly why I don't want. Not only do I don't want the role, but I don't want to be here. I don't kind of want to be in this weird corporate kind of setup where there's like a hierarchy thing and I can't speak to stuff like that.

24:54Robert Castaño: So it's like, right. Because I think interviewing a conversation is two ways. Right. I know as someone who was trying to break in, you're like, you just want to say the right things and you don't want to like kind of rock the boat. But it's two ways, because once you're giving your energy, your time, your effort, you're bringing in all your experiences to this job. You want to make sure it's worth it, especially if you're coming out of a situation that wasn't the greatest. I would say all the time, I am beyond lucky from the BLAC experience to my first agency job to this agency job at Barca. I've only met great people.

25:27That's amazing.

25:28Robert Castaño: yeah i've only met gravy i've heard horror stories but it's like i'm not one of those people even when i was in between jobs i wasn't in the blac internship program but the community was so real that i can tap in with people have conversations and it's like just have a meeting with this person there's no opportunity attached to it but you should meet this person you should meet this person this is how you and i got connected like you should meet gino you should meet this so it's like that's super super super important but i say that i say like i've been lucky enough to not have experience. But if you do, it's kind of just taking a step back and understanding why you don't like something and understanding for your next situation, what's going to make that feeling not be there.

26:06Totally, totally. So I want to finish this up then with advice for breaking into advertising today, knowing what you know now, like recapping either what we talked about in this episode or we haven't talked about are tangible things that worked for you. You can take this two ways, Robert. You can talk about advertising in general, or you can take this and talk about account management. Like what are the skills to break in? How do you break into account management? So I'll leave it up to you, whatever path you want to take.

26:34Robert Castaño: I think I'm going to go as a whole into advertising. I want to say something that's very powerful and it's something that works for me. I am a people person. I'm very, very bubbly and things of that nature. And I'm good at engaging with people. I think building quality relationships, I'm going to have a few things, right? And I think I may repeat one thing, But I think building quality relationships, quality in the sense of it's not one way traffic. It's just not I'm not reaching out to you whenever I'm looking for an opportunity or I saw that you were connected with someone at LinkedIn. If you're at university or you're an intern, if you're an intern, make sure you speak to everybody.

27:11Robert Castaño: Make sure that you can have a conversation with every and anybody because you just never know very much like the taste conversation we had earlier where that could lead. I was just noting that to bring that back up. So taste conversations, like a great way to start that quality relationship. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because it can go so many different ways. You can have more reference points in terms of just creativity, things to read, things to watch, people to speak to. But also you can continue to get information because going back to what you said, there's nothing worse than working towards a job and getting there and not liking it.

27:45Robert Castaño: So the more conversations you have, the more you can realize I want to be in this kind of agency. I maybe don't want to be the small. I want to be the big. I want to do the opposite. That for me is super important. But that all comes from quality relationships, a two-way relationship. And that is vital. And that's it. That's it for me because it's helped me personally. And then in terms of once you're in, bring your full self. Don't ever shut anything down, any weird niche things that you're into. Bring everything to the table because, as I mentioned earlier, You just never know where that little bit of information is going to help the client that you're engaging.

28:23Oh, I'll pause it there. Yeah, I think I'll give you an example. I have, you know, we are lucky now to have three full time employees by this is outside of Jack. So there's five of us full time right now. Thank you. But Ellie and JR are 23-year-old recent grads from Boston University, fantastic humans. But what they do is we trust their algorithm and their taste. So when Ellie sends us that, there's a new, I don't know, Olaplex pop-up in New York City. I don't know what Olaplex is, but apparently it's big in her world and her microculture. and when she says we need to cover this, I don't, bad night.

29:14I trust her. It's her taste. We're covering what she wants to bring up. And same thing for JR, for Jack, myself. If we have conviction and if they bring it up, we'll make a post about it and it ends up going crazy online. Like it can get hundreds of thousands of views just because they're passionate and they have conviction about it.

29:32Robert Castaño: Even though I might not know as the editor in a way what the hell this thing is, I go sure I might even think it's dumb Robert I'm like I think this is this sucks but if you if you're you have conviction I trust you let's run I trust you right I trust you I may not trust the thing I don't know where it's going I don't but I trust you you're bringing it to the table I love your POV or I understand or maybe I don't understand your POV but I know this is something I'm gonna just put it through and I think that's the sign of a great environment that you're building over there but i think that's like so important especially when you're breaking in because you feel like oh my nah i don't want to say like if it's the weirder the better because i got another question for you i want to just so even in our environment sometimes they don't like like we can have bad days right like jack and i stressed out it's i'm not having it yeah and sometimes the environment is not conducive to being like fully creative yeah and i'm assuming there's some agencies out there like that all the time just being honest like so what how do you do this then how do you bring your weird niches your ideas in an environment on an off day where your bosses are pissed off something's going on their personal lives or if you're like if the agency's a bad environment all the time what do you say to those folks it's tough i'll say that's tough but i think for me what i in my experience right and it's tough for me to look sometimes outside I was back to what I was saying, I know my personality is my superpower, so I'm able to read.

31:03Robert Castaño: But I think that goes back to the relationships and understanding the temperature and the culture and what conversations to have and when to have them. Because when you're in tune with your team or at least you're on the road, you know, it might not be a good time to just have that conversation or throw that joke out. People are a little tight or people are really tight. You know what they need? They kind of just need a little palate cleanser. Yo, you know, I just saw this thing and it just takes everyone like the pressure like, oh, OK, cool. Yeah, we could laugh or we could be like, oh, that's interesting.

31:34Robert Castaño: I think it's just and that takes time, right? Like, yeah, that one is not a today to tomorrow solved. But I do think that comes with the team aspect and building the original point, having conversations with people, knowing who they are, what they're like, what their interests are, what their interests are. So therefore you can gauge when is the right time that you're there, because sometimes you may need that. Sometimes the leadership within the agency is not the actual work. It's actually stepping outside of that and knowing it's like, you know what? We've had a very tough week. I just need to step in here.

32:07Robert Castaño: Let's just be lighthearted today. Yeah. Let's let's just have a conversation as humans, because I think above all, too, is like we're all humans trying to function. Regardless of whatever it is, it's like we're all humans just trying to function. And as long as we don't lose that, I think sometimes, at least for me, when I stepped in, it's a very intimidating, daunting thing of like presenting and all these things like they're just humans on the other side. Yeah, they're all going through things and going back to the environment, like even here at Barker's like it's all human. So it's never like a daunting thing of like having that conversation.

32:39Robert Castaño: So I think being mindful of that and then just building with your team. the it's so funny i just got like i just asked our cpa for our pnl uh statement up until this year i'm not going to reveal numbers but you look at the line item the biggest expense for our company and agencies companies i know for a fact it's payroll it's people yes it's a people business this is the product this is the service this is it's all people here and i think that's your superpower. I think that's underrated is the emotional intelligence. I don't know if you were born with it. You learned it from your past experiences here, but I would love to open up, you know, to you, if you're down for it, can people reach out to you, Robert, if they want to connect with you?

33:26Robert Castaño: Absolutely. Absolutely. Please. And thank you. All, all DMs are welcome. LinkedIn, Robert Castaño, all social platforms, Robert Castaño, love to have these conversations And please send me something good. Send me what you're watching. Send me what you're listening to. I want to know about the new niche things. I want to continue to be in the niche world, man. It doesn't stop, right? Doesn't stop. It never stops. Well, Robert, you crushed it. I know we can keep talking forever here, but I want to get the people to reach out to you as well. Start those relationships as well. So thank you so much for coming on.