DEEP DIVE: Olivia Martinez-Hauge on Special Needs Parenting

0:00Amy, let me tell you about a magical place that is so exactly designed to be enclosed space, year-round fun for the whole family, that I bet you already know what I'm going to say before I even say the name. Let's say it together on three. One, two, three. Great Wolf Lodge.

0:20Olivia Martinez-Hauge:You got it, Amy. My kids loved Great Wolf Lodge when we went. You probably already know that it has a huge indoor water park with a wave pool, Lazy River, a bunch of massive water slides. But then your pack can hit the other attractions because, wait, there's more. Great Wolf Lodge has adventure-packed attractions like MagiQuest, a live-action game kids can play throughout the lodge, plus the Northern Lights Arcade. Spent some quality time there, so your kid who loves the Lazy River and your kid who loves fantasy games will both have a great time. Great Wolf Lodge also offers great dining options and complimentary daily events like nightly dance parties.

0:56Olivia Martinez-Hauge:All under one roof. Unpack the car once and you're settled in to have fun. And with 22 lodges across the country, you're always a short drive away from adventure. We've both had such great times at Great Wolf Lodge, so bring your pack together at a lodge near you. Learn more at greatwolf.com and strengthen the pack. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Fresh Take from What Fresh Hell? Laughing in the face of motherhood. This is Margaret. And this is Amy. And today we're talking to Olivia Martinez-Hauge. She's a marriage and family therapist specializing in the treatment of families, couples, and individuals who are caregiving for children or adults with neurodiversity.

1:36Olivia Martinez-Hauge:She's also a licensed occupational therapist with over two decades of experience helping children and their families. She's the mother of three children, two with neurodiversity, and she is currently co-director of the Center for Connection and Neurodiversity in Duarte, California. Welcome, Olivia. Hi, thank you for having me. Welcome. I'm so excited. I'm always happy to speak to people after this year of pandemic. I know. How many kids do you have and how old? I have a lot. I have three, and they're always around. My 13-year-old Ryan is my daughter, and my middle is 10. He's Mateo, and my youngest is Cruz, and he is eight.

2:19Olivia, we have children exactly the same age. Do we really? We're going to be close. I'm 12, just turned 11, and nine, but it's basically the same spread. Jinx, yeah. But I got boy, boy, girl. But other than that, we're in the same realm. Yeah, and they're always around, aren't they? Lately, yeah. I will say mine being back in school remains like it's almost I would never wish for the pandemic. Let's just be very clear. It was horrible. Right. I realized it was much more horrible for some, but it has really made me appreciate not having them in the house. I mean, my kids are in school. So your kids are probably out of school already.

2:57Right. California. Yeah. We're out of school and we chose not to send them back after, you know, the schools opened up just because of our schedules and stuff. But, you know, it did make me appreciate why I am not a stay-at-home mom, why I chose to not be a stay-at-home mom. But anyway, it was an interesting year. I love the laughing in the face of motherhood because nothing was funnier than being at home with the kids during the pandemic. And certainly if you didn't laugh, there was only one other option. Oh, a barrel of monkeys, wasn't it?

3:31Olivia Martinez-Hauge:Can I ask you sort of a nerdy question to begin? I'm honestly curious, the word neurodiverse versus the word special needs, I feel like we're moving towards as a society using the word neurodiverse more. Do they mean the same thing? Are they interchangeable? Is neurodiverse preferable? Can you explain that to me? Yeah, I think as a community and as we begin to grow and know more about disability and really adopting and listening to the person with the lived experience. We're going into this, and hopefully we continue to grow as a society into this more, a better understanding of disabilities. And so I think it's just a word that can help encompass disability.

4:22And I mean, I don't know if I'm answering the question right, but I feel like it is a movement going more towards science and what we know through brain research and really accepting someone's identity as being neurodiverse. And neurodiverse, I think also, as a parent of a neurodiverse child, it is brain-centered in terms of like learning and access, correct? So yes, it is a distinction, I think, between special needs as an umbrella that could include a kid who has a problem with their leg or a problem with their sight, maybe, right? And neurodiverse is slightly more centered on children who have sort of brain function differences, correct?

5:05Yeah. And I think that that's where we're really needing to focus too, is that a child that is demonstrating some kind of behavior that we don't like, or, you know, some sort of compulsion or issue in that area, that there's an actual reason. There is a neurologic reason that that is occurring. And so we need to look at that rather than just sort of the observable behaviors that we see. There's a reason behind that. There's a why. And you started your journey into this experience and path that you're on now as a therapist for parents of kids with special needs. And then you had a child, a neurodiverse child yourself.

5:49So can you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah. So I was an occupational therapist for about seven years before I had my daughter, Ryan. As all moms are, I think I was going into motherhood with a certain expectation. I was entering into being a mom with all these ideas of what kind of mom I'm going to be and what my daughter's going to be like and the gymnastic classes that I'll take her to and walking arm in arm down through the mall. And when I had her, it was an instantaneous, the air was sucked out of the delivery room. It was one of those moments where they held her up and I said, something is terribly wrong.

6:34And I, in that moment, literally went 40 years into the future and was like, my husband and I will never be able to travel. We're never, you know, this little girl's never going to leave our home. And boy, it sent me in a tailspin. We have a phrase for that on the podcast. It's called catastrophizing. The kid pulled a fire alarm at school. This means I need to prepare for a life of them being,

7:00Olivia Martinez-Hauge:you know, life is a ne 'er-do-well. Completely off the normal path. Totally, totally. And it was, you know, she wasn't 30 seconds old. And I turned to my husband, I'm like, our lives are over. And we, you know, I just that set myself on a trajectory of depression and anxiety. and for a number of years, just dealing with, if not upfront anxiety, just this like low level vibration of anxiety that just covered everything, that I was just constantly and always anxious about something. And it took me a long time to recognize and to realize that I was basically grieving my expectations, that I went through grief.

7:45Olivia Martinez-Hauge:And was this something that you had seen in parents you had worked with before? Or could you recognize as you were going through this, like, oh, this is the grief cycle that a parent might go through? Oh, totally. When I was, so then, like, it was a good two years of depression. And then the fog was sort of lifting. And then I was able to, like, see other parents, you know, and go, you're here in the grief cycle. And by the way, you know, the grief cycle for parents with neurodiverse kids, it's not a cycle. It's a ball of, like, you know, Christmas lights that are all entangled with each other.

8:18But yeah, it made me a better therapist. It made me a better communicator. And I was able to recognize in someone else, like, that anger you're feeling is really fear. It's fear for the future, that you're really not angry with me, but you're afraid of what the future is going to hold. Or, you know, one of the common things that happens is if a therapist is saying, you know, okay, your child is graduating from services or whatever, and the parent sort of erupts in this, you know, wait, no, you can't go. It's the fact that I'm triggering loss, you know, that there's some level of loss there that I'm part of their community, and they don't want to lose someone that's part of their community.

9:01I think when you talk about the grief, it's interesting because I think as we've matured in our kind of thought process about people who operate in any other way, anything that we used to consider the norm, any kid who operates outside of that, that we're understanding more that there's a lot of ways to be and that acceptance and understanding that like we aren't here to pull people towards this central norm, which I think maybe our parents' generation thought that was our goal. Totally, yes. At the same time, it is okay and natural to feel feelings of some grief around any kid pictured within that central norm who is now outside of that.

9:46That's a different path. It's still a grieving process that you're not going to be quite in that center that you pictured. Right, for sure. Yeah. And I think we need to honor everybody's lived experiences and honor the true feelings. Because if we deny that part, now that I've matured, as you said, and I see things, I definitely see things differently than I did, you know, 13 years ago. And if I sort of shy away from saying that I grieved because maybe the neurodiverse population is saying, well, you know, you shouldn't have grieved where everything is okay. I hear that. Yes. And I agree with you.

10:28I wish that I knew now what I knew 13 years ago, but I needed to go through that process. I had to go through that process to get to where I am now, where I have certainties. You know, if I skipped things and along the way, then I kind of would feel like a little shaky. But man, my feet are on the ground and I'm fully comfortable with where I am now today. And that's good advice for people who are starting this journey. Like it is a process to move from one side of that to the other. Right. And I think that that's a interesting thing to put in people's path. And I always like to widen these discussions.

11:06We have an audience. Maybe you don't have a neurodiverse child at home, but you have a child who you thought was going to be a ballerina because that was always your dream. And they're really bad at dancing. Like that's what our conversation is about. What did it look like for Olivia? And what can we learn from for that? Every parent is on this same path, which is how I thought this was going to go versus how it's turning out. Right. And how we can support each other on that journey. Right. For sure. Yeah. No, No, I love that. I certainly would say, you know, I've done enough obsessively researching, you know, worrying, anxiety, sadness for about 100 moms.

11:47I've done it for you. And I certainly want to say, you know, that your journey is very individualized. And so, you know, my hope is that by talking about it and normalizing it and saying that this is very, what the feelings that you're feeling are very common, that helps them on their journey just a little bit more. Because I really do feel there's very little I regret because I just choose not to regret a lot of things. But the things that I do regret are some years where I spent too much time obsessing, too much time actually being her therapist and not her mom. And I'd like to say that I sort of redid that with my number three child who has autism.

12:36And I took a completely different approach with him so that I don't lose those years.

12:43Olivia Martinez-Hauge:Let's take a break. When we come back, I want to hear more about this new approach. I used to think electrolytes were just for athletes with super intense workouts. But let me tell you, Drip Drop has become my go-to reset button. Drip Drop is doctor-developed, proven fast hydration that helps your body and mind work better. Drip Drop uses science-based formulas for rapid hydration, so you feel results fast while getting three times the electrolytes of leading sports drinks. Drip Drop is trusted by firefighters, medical professionals, and over 90 % of top college and pro sports teams. Drip Drop also just dropped Zero Sugar Plus, a breakthrough formula with an advanced blend of six key electrolytes, 15 essential vitamins and nutrients, and no sugar or artificial sweeteners.

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15:14Olivia Martinez-Hauge:It really helps. Get a spring-worthy glow with clean, clinically tested skincare from Osea. And right now we have a special discount just for our listeners. Get 10 % off your first order site-wide with code FRESH at oseamalibu.com. That's 10 % off your first order site-wide with code FRESH at oseamalibu.com. The other thing that is sort of a perhaps an inescapable part of parenting a neurodivergent kid is the isolation that comes with it. The fear isolates you, the feeling nobody else understands what you're going through, the exhaustion, right, of dealing with it every day and then not really wanting to do the small talk at the parents meeting, because why are we talking about these silly, silly things?

15:58Olivia Martinez-Hauge:And yet, that makes you, I suppose, less able to parent your kid when you are, as you said, working as the therapist, as the full-time researcher, and not as the full person. Was that part of your journey to sort of refine the other parts of yourself that weren't the parent, the therapist, the OT, and everything else? Yeah. And let me just go back for a moment. Logistically, I think the isolation, just based on logistics, I couldn't just go to a busy park and meet some friends because my friends would let their children go play and my child can't just go and play. I would have to be over there.

16:38So, you know, I was literally isolated going out into the playground and playing with my child when my friends were, you know, sipping Chardonnay on a picnic blanket. But yeah, I had to. OK, well, if I'm not her therapist and I'm not going to spend 24-7 figuring out how to, quote unquote, fix her, then what do I do? And I really struggled with being that mom and not allowing those voices in my head to say, you know, well, this is a really good therapeutic moment right here. We should be teaching her how to use a spoon and a fork. And we should, you know, oh, we need to do some weight bearing exercises to really get her shoulders, you know, strong and whatever.

17:22That took a lot of holding myself back and really going to what I knew for certain, which is that play is, you know, the ultimate medicine and playing with her as opposed to therapizing her. I think an interesting aspect of that, and you talk about this, is when you have a kid who has any kind of need that you can get very hung up on. And this happens for all parents. Developmental milestones. Is your kid hitting the developmental milestones? Are they, you know, everybody's like, are they sitting up by age this? Are they saying their first words by age that? And this is something that we see people.

18:05I mean, parenting boards are full of this kind of stuff. And sometimes kids are not hitting those milestones. And we always tell parents, here's the secret. You can't affect a lot of outcomes. You're not as in charge of outcomes. But I think with, you know, I'm going to say special needs parents, which I hope people understand that I'm talking about a broad range of things. We don't have that much control anyway, but somehow we think we do. For sure. And, you know, a funny story to me now, not then, was when you're pregnant, some moms register for those online baby things that tell you your child's the size of a grapefruit.

18:43And now it's a, you know, whatever. Cantaloupe. Right. Once they're born, then they send you, your child should be cooing and your child should be sitting up right now, whatever. I tried to feverishly delete my account and it never deleted. And so every month I would get these like, you know, just little spears of daggers of reminders, your child should be doing X, Y, and Z. Well, she was not even close to doing any of that stuff. So every month I would just give my the big middle finger to my email. I see it there. I'm like, so now I can laugh about it back then. I was like, Oh my God, I got another email.

19:27And what does that process look like for someone who's right now with their middle finger up towards their email. Like, what does that process look like getting from this is incredibly painful to where you are, which is through the other side of the looking glass on it? I mean, if you were talking to someone who's getting those emails right now, what would you say to them? Here's the bottom line, really, and where I kind of sit today, which is we live in a society where we say neurotypical is best, and normal is the thing to aspire to. And because of my education and my own personal experience, my mom was born with profound hearing loss.

20:16And so she was deaf most of my life. And so My understanding of disability came from these stories where like my mom needed to deny her identity as a deaf person and try to go through life pretending she was not. And so that was the message she gave to me, you know, not purposefully, but basically this narrative of it's not OK to be disabled. It's not OK to have impairments. And heaven forbid your child have any impairments. I really hope that doesn't happen to you. And so I had to find out for myself where these messages of disability came from, and then unpack them and go, you know what, this has nothing to do with my daughter.

21:07This has everything to do with the community, you know, outside of her. And she's only and what's interesting about the pandemic is, in our home, she looks less disabled than when she goes out into the society. But that is a model of disability. You know, there's that medical model of disability that people with disabilities or impairments, they want to be fixed or they want to be normal. And so, you know, looking at the social model of disability, it is how can she access the world around her? And, you know, because one of the things that really started to shift my thinking is, you know, watch like something like Peppa Pig, and the pig burps.

21:53And she is in hysterics. She is belly laugh hysterics. She is a joyful person, 24 hours a day. And I just thought, why would I ever want to change that? That is something I want to aspire to, to be belly laughing all day long. What kind of amazing life would that be? that you're just in hysterics all day. So to go round and around back to your question, what I would say to the people who are giving the double barrel middle fingers to their emails is that start to look at what your narrative of disability is. And why are we aspiring to neurotypical and to normal when our kids are happy who they are?

22:40And we can, what we really should be doing is fostering their identity and hugely their mental health. Yes. Not denying parts

22:52Olivia Martinez-Hauge:of them. I had never really thought of that before, how we as a society, you see something on Facebook, like this kid with Down syndrome graduated from college, and it's an incredible achievement, right? But that's a better outcome than the kid who didn't graduate from college. That's not necessarily the case. We do sort of celebrate the kids with neurodiversity or special needs who managed to achieve a more mainstream milestone, but those parents aren't more deserving of kudos than the kids who didn't graduate from college. I just never really thought about that, that we do put a lot of pressure on it to the stories we want to hear are the kids who made it anyway, right?

23:28Right, right. Yeah. And, you know, I have fought for inclusion for many years for my daughter. And one of the things I hear parents say who want their kids included in like a general education setting is we want neurotypical role models for their child. How about we just start saying because our children have the right to be where everyone else is. And, you know, as opposed to, we want them to be more normal or more typical. And, you know, I looked at I watched I don't know if you guys have seen the documentary Crypt Camp. Yeah. If you haven't seen it, go watch it right now. Finish this episode and then watch it.

24:09Yeah. Finish this episode first. Come on, people, use your head. And then go plop yourself down and watch that documentary. But, you know, I just thought sitting there watching some of those final scenes and the final pictures, and I thought, why we should not be standing on the backs of these individuals at the same time trying to change them into you need to be more normal, right? So we shouldn't be celebrating and thanking these amazing individuals who fought for the rights of disabled people at the same time saying, you know, but it would be better if you were a little bit more normal or more typical.

24:51And so I came to a place for myself in parenthood was where I was tired. I was tired of being anxious. I was tired of being fearful of the future. I was tired of all of that stuff. And I just said, you know what, something's got to change. And so I just had to reframe things for myself and do a little self discovery. That's the role modeling, not the role modeling of like, oh, let's role model kids to, you know, be more normal. It's like, let's role model, figuring out how to love, you know, we say, if you judge the fish by its ability to ride a bicycle, you'll always be disappointed in the fish, you know, but like, you're missing out on swimming, which is pretty awesome and all the things a fish can do.