Henry Cyril Paget: the dancing marquess of Anglesey

27:58He set about, well, I mean, he continued, but on a larger and larger scale, to indulge his passions for jewellery, for new technologies. He had every gramophone plus all the discs that you could have, pianolas, all of that sort of thing. And obviously theatricals. you know, he put money into his performances. Which is lovely. Nice if you got it. So he sells his dad's dogs. Which feels like, I don't know, it feels like some sort of message to the Cosmas. Like, I don't need these. Yes, a bit of a slap in the face, isn't it? They say dogs are a man's best friend. I'm selling my dad's best friends.

28:46Yep, absolutely. And I'm replacing them with a chihuahua. And he's also got a French bulldog, hasn't he, as well? He has a French bulldog, which he brings over from America, but he hasn't bothered with a licence or anything like that, so he gets fined, but fine to him is obviously nothing. Yeah, he's fined 20 quid, which at the time is a lot of money, and to him is like pennies, because he's a marquis. OK, so he's got all this money. He's going to spend it, as you said, on theatricals, on jewels, on clothes. In modern money, what are we talking, millions? Millions. Millions. Tens of millions. His income was£110 ,000 a year.

29:23Wow, okay. Which is like, I think it's between£12 ,000 and£15 ,000 a year. We typically multiply by£10 ,000 to£15 ,000, don't we, for a century ago. So, I mean, yeah. £15 million a year is his sort of... So that's his income. That's his income. So their credit, though, at least they're spending the money. Yeah. You know, some people just sit on it and that money just gets out of the system. But they're like, have it, have it, have it. I bet the people around him were loving it. I was going to ask, what do you think the local community makes of him? I bet they think he's an eccentric, but at least he's spending money.

29:57I think you're right. He does sort of patronise local businesses. Yes, he patronises local businesses, as well as, you know, all the great jewellers across Europe, maybe Paris. You know, so he engages with the local community in a way that produces a lot of genuine affection for him. Oh, good for him. Yeah. Okay, that's nice. And he pops on, do you know what a tableau vivant is? Have you ever heard of a tableau vivant? Tableau vivant? No, no, at all. I mean, how would we describe it for listeners? You create a very elaborate reproduction of, say, a famous painting. Yes. and lights out, lights up, and there's this precise reproduction of the painting.

30:42And then music is played underneath it, and the test is actually to be able to hold absolutely frozen, and then the lights out. And you do a sequence of them. And they did things, famous paintings, but they also did birds' custard powder, which was a new thing. and it's two figure, you know, the advertising campaign was two chefs. One who was the classic who made it from custard from eggs and the other one was the newbie who made it from birds' custard powder. And they did, apparently, they did a tableau vivant of the birds' custard powder. So you and your mates, the lights come up and you all hold the pose.

31:27Sort of perfect reconstruction of a painting. Lights go down, lights come up and you've got a whole new painting. You've done a whole new painting. He goes on tour with his money. He doesn't go back to Paris. No. He goes to the new party city of Dresden. Dresden, yeah. In Germany. He didn't actually go on tour. Okay, he's not on tour. No, he didn't go on tour. He just took himself there. Okay. Had a long, spent a long time in Dresden. And he then paid the local theatre owner, a new theatre just opened. he paid a man called Mal to allow him to appear on the stage and perform to do one of the new sort of skirt dances that had grown through the 1890s where he's wearing a white silk tunic and he moves you don't actually move your feet but you move the upper part of your body and projecting onto this were pictures of the German royal family.

32:28Onto his skirt? Onto this skirt, which you wave around, and, you know, these images, you fold out, fold out, and a new image comes on. And he also paid for his friends to come to the theatre and to sit in the boxes and things like that and present him with flowers. I mean, if you had that money, Would you plant your friends in all your gigs and just have them throwing roses at you? Of course I would. It's so kidding. I never have to win anyone over again. Yeah, exactly. Every room is just a warm, lovely, welcoming room. The problem was that he never got asked back. Okay. I think the German audiences were, I think, in one sense, very bemused by what this was all about.

33:16Yes. And there's some really wonderful commentaries in the German newspapers about this. The English ones were quite, you know, said, Oh, wasn't it wonderful? Santoy, which is what he called himself. That's his stage name, Santoy. Santoy. At this stage, it was... So he's got a stage name. Oh, he's got a stage name. He's not the Marcus, he's Santoy. Santoy. I mean, some of the clothes and outfits that he is wearing, Henry Cyril, he is wearing... He's got a pale pink suit. He's got stripy underpants. He's got silk ping pong uniform. Yes, yes. I mean, when you see the photographs of him outside, He's wearing what we would see as dandy dress, beautiful tailored suits.

33:57Apparently one of these was Pink, but there's no real sense that he wore those in public. But he's always immaculately dressed. But he does have, when they have to sell everything that he owned, he does have, the lists are endless. He had, I think it's 56, what they called smoking suits, which were silk suits, which you just wore in, you know, your domestic, you know, when you're at home, at leisure. And they are brilliant. They call, they're in every single colour in the world. And the purple underpants are on display in the National Museum of Scotland. They're striped and they're made in Paris.

34:39And they're silk and they're rather wonderful. I mean, who wouldn't want purple underpants? Absolutely. I'm wearing purple underpants right now. It's completely purple. I am. So these are extraordinary looks. I mean, could you get away with that, walking down Murthyr Tiffel High Street? Oh, everything goes in Murthyr Tiffel High Street. Don't you want that? It's a lot more inclusive than you think because if you start being exclusive, no one's allowed there. It was a wonderful place. I love the idea of, I've always liked the idea of smoking suits because it just makes me think of, if we had that today, is there vaping suits?

35:14Yes. Vaping suits, yes. And what would they be? Yeah, vaping pyjamas or something, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. September's always busy. Whole Foods Market can help. Their September Stock Up event makes it easy to load your pantry and freezer with flavorful, nourishing food. Even better, there are hundreds of sales. Get dinner going with canned soups and veggies. Lean on frozen pizzas, pastas, and seafood everyone loves. Their Build Your Own Family Meals feeds four for just$35. Stock Up at Whole Foods Market. In 1872, the Marie Celeste was found adrift in the Atlantic. Every person on board was gone, and none of them were ever seen again.

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36:23And so Anglesey Castle becomes a kind of locus for the community to come and hang out. I mean, he sort of opens the castle up. He invited them not into the castle itself, but he had sports days. He had fancy dress parties where you would, you know. So they have competitions, cycling competitions, where they have to light a cigarette, cycle all the way across the estate and then have the cigarette lit at the end. That's the winner. I wish we did more things like that rather than fastest, quickest, 400 metres. Imagine that if it was an Olympic event. Oh my God, we're doing the 20-mile brusprint.

37:05Famously, he had lots of cars. Of course he does. Cars are kind of brand new, so he's got plenty. what flavour does he perfume the exhaust pipe? Oh, I'll tell you what, I don't know anything about titles, don't know much about scents either. I don't have a sense of smell. Oh. It's a bit of a loony tune. I got hit on the head as a kid and I lost it. Oh, no. So I'm going to have to go with, what's my partner love? Lavender. It is lavender. Oh, really? That's amazing, yes. You see, I don't think it is lavender. I think that's just a story. Oh. I think, because Lavender is too earthy and beautiful and nice, soft.

37:45Patchouli. Because Patchouli, he had apparently Patchouli scented programmes for his shows. Right, OK. And Patchouli has got that sort of exotic, and we know he had bottles of the latest in male perfumes, and I think it's much more likely to be Patchouli. But you can't put scent in an exhaust. I've checked with Bewley. Have you tried? I checked with Bewley and they sounded a little confused at my question. Oh. But they said, no, of course you can't. But of course, he probably sprayed the inside of his cars, particularly that Pullman Morse that he had, which is built like a railway carriage. Yeah.

38:23Hence my opening joke about him driving a kind of railway shaped car, right? So the rumour is lavender. You think patchouli, but it's fragrant driving. You know, it's delicious. It's, you know. That's a challenge in the countryside at the best of times. Well, I was going to say, if you drive through parts of Wales, sometimes the fragrance is slightly more animal. I've just been driving through Wales literally this weekend. I always thought when you're driving with another person in the countryside, there's always that awkward moment you've got to go, it's the fields. It's not me, it's the cattle, it's the manure.

38:54He sets up his own theatre at the Anglesey Castle, as he's renamed it, and he steals a theatre company. He steals a theatre company, yes. Yes, there's this sort of probably third rate, they were not making their money, theatre company touring with a production called The Music Hall Girl. And the actresses in one place had had to pawn their jewels in order to pay for the cost of the theatre. They rock up to Chlandidno and are playing there. And he does what many aristocrats do, which is invite them to perform in the Gaiety Theatre, which is his refurbished theatre, which he has brought electricity in and all sorts of wonderful things.

39:36And it's the most beautiful bijou little 150-seater theatre. There are images of it that are fabulous. So this company come and do the musical girl there and he decides that he will offer Alex Keith, who is the manager, and Julie Kent, who is the star, an inordinate amount of money in order to come and be his theatre company. Great, isn't it? It's a personal theatre company. A personal theatre company. What would you have them perform for you? Ooh, I'd give them difficult stuff. I'd do like Breaking Bad. Oh, OK. Ooh. Entire HBO shows, yeah. I think they'd love the challenge of that. And I'd love to go like, oh, you played a Mexican gangster last week.

40:24Now you're Skylar. And would you play Walter White? Would you be the lead? No, I tell you what, as a performer, it's going to sound a bit egotistical. I've worked really hard at being a good performer. I think I'm a great performer. I'm a blinking amazing punter. I am such a good audience member. Love it. I can sit back and enjoy it all. Complete reverse of the Marquis, I'm afraid. I don't actually think he... I mean, Alex Keith, when he died, called him a perfectly good actor. which is sort of understatement. That's sort of damning with faint praise, isn't it? Damning with faint praise. And there's no record of him actually being in an audience.

41:09So he's stolen a theatre company, but he wants to be the star. He wants to be the star. Okay, all right. It reminds me of that 90s anti-piracy advert. You wouldn't steal a handbag, you wouldn't steal a car, you wouldn't steal an itinerant theatre troupe. Yeah, completely. It's sort of great, isn't it? Because that advert never made sense, did it? You wouldn't steal a handbag, you wouldn't steal a car. Are you just like, yeah, if you wanted a handbag or a guy, you'd do it. I think it led to more piracy. And you knew how to do it, yeah. So he's got his theatre company there. He also does, he goes on tour a bit with them too, doesn't he?

41:36He plays in Litchfield, he plays in Leamington Spa, he plays in Llandy Dno. He does to a very limited extent. He's 150-seater theatre, so he can go to Llandy Dno. And he plays in a hall there. He doesn't play in a theatre theatre. Litchfield, he plays, again, in a hall. and it's only right with the last production that he did, which was of Oscar Wilde's An Ideal Husband, that it went on tour properly and that was playing proper theatres, i.e. two and three thousand seat theatres and I think he managed four places. Basically, you move from 150 seater, local audience that loves you and you go to Boscombe, 3 ,000-seat theatre, and maybe your voice isn't up to it.

42:29Maybe the audience doesn't love you in exactly the same way. Yes, okay, so he's playing 150-seater venues, which is... Cute. Cute, yeah. But maybe he's not quite cut out for it. You open Porcelli Town Hall. Yes, okay. New Town Hall. He takes a little version of Aladdin there. And he has an iconic dance as well that he does called the Butterfly Dance. would you like to demonstrate for us what you think that should look like okay for the listeners isn't it atrocious it's gonna be an awkward i'm gonna do it for a half hour by the way so the butterfly i'm assuming is grand i'm trying not to hit all the things on the side up and down i'm swinging i'm up i'm swinging fabric fabric on the wrists fabric on the wrist i think is swirling up swirling down i think he's not doing anything with his face it's their version of voguing i hear yes so it's just big plane in arms head straight on it's not far off he had wands that extended so that you you make your your wings even greater oh he's even bigger than that big thing is that you that you project colors on it so you have um limelight and two two limelight men um to project and he also had don't know quite how it worked because it was stage was very small um a glass floor this is from loey fuller the great innovative dance loey fuller glass floor which you project light from underneath as well so as you're moving around your arms and waving them around and the silk it catches the light and the changing lights and he also had to we know he did a dance the electric dance where he had probably little light bulbs all over him and, you know, all sorts of dances to do with nature.

44:11Amazing. The Fish King dance. Not quite sure what that one's about. Okay, so that's why he's called the Dancing Marquess. That's why he's called the Dancing Marquess. He's a Dancing Marquess. Every performance he would do. Clues in the name. That's a sound a bit, because I'm writing a show at the moment, I'm on tour this autumn, and it's kind of really admirable is the wrong way. It's inspiring to know, even just back then, someone is trying to bring something different to, right? Because at the moment where we just do shows, it's lights up, lights down. This person is incorporating different lights.

44:43How can I incorporate different feelings with these lights? We don't even do that now for a lot of performances. This is brand new technology. He's really innovating, you know, and he's got his silky ping pong uniform. He's got his purple underpants and he's got his butterfly costume. You know, he's a sort of one man industry, isn't he? He's sort of keeping tailors in, you know, in all sorts of... What's keeping tailors except he's not paying them? Ah, right. That's next to my script, actually, Viv. Sorry. We basically, he runs out of money. The man on 15 million quid a year runs out of money in 1904 and we get the Anglesey Great Sales where he has to start selling some stuff to pay the bills.

45:17Just, you know, tell us. Well, basically he is insolvent because aristocrats don't go bankrupt because that involves selling the entailed property. So that's not classy. That's not classy. And they have a way of protecting themselves. So everything that he owned, and that included all the things in the house, including the cooking pots and stuff like that, and his whole wardrobe and his cars had to be sold. And the sales lasted from July 1904 through to December 1904. So the theatre is dismantled and sold. And there's this wonderful scene where there's a marquee outside and they are parceling through the windows of the house and taking the stuff to the market, all of his clothing.

46:08And there's descriptions of the... These were the most popular of the sales. And people came for the spectacle as much as they came to buy anything. I've got a list here of the things that are on sale. I don't know if any of these appeal to you, Morgan. So he's selling his parrot, Jacko, who is a multilingual parrot, speaks French, Welsh, English and Russian. Oh, that's amazing. And apparently swears in them. Yes. That's the other story. That's what you want. We had, I know it sounds like I'm trying to stop. We had a swear, we had a swear in Parrot. Oh. Yeah, my nan, I can literally show you on my phone, my nan's called Nanny Parrot.

46:42And she used to, I remember she always used to go, oh, she's listening to, oh, why can the parrot swear? She always listens to the radio. I was like, what are you listening to? Amazing. You've got to have a sweary parrot. So he's selling his sweary parrot. He's selling his silky ping pong uniform. He's selling his bejewelled walking sticks, furniture, ice skates, mink coat with 20 heads, various pianos and pianolas, various little dogs in their beautiful jackets with Henry's insignia sewn into the jackets, 500 pairs of gloves, four cannons, obviously, 1 ,000 photos of himself and his friends, and the auctioneer's assistant, Jerry, modelled all of the clothes so people could see what they looked like.

47:19So what would you buy at that auction oh i mean the thousand photos of yourself i mean it was well ahead of his time that's everyone nowadays yeah it is that's that's our kind of camera reels and a thousand photos of us in all our he pretty much just had his um he had his instagram printed out didn't he i would but i mean personally i would buy the silky ping pong uniform i would buy the little dog outfits. I look after a little toy poodle and I think my partner would melt into a puddle. Viv, what would you buy? I would buy the cooking pots. Very practical. That's fine. I'm not interested in the walking sticks and the waistcoats and things like that.

48:07And the cooking pots. And the chocolate. There was a lot of chocolate. Of course there was. For breakfast. Here's breakfast chocolate. Of course, a parrot you could teach at a podcast. I wouldn't need to do this gig. I'd just get Jacko the parrot in, just get her to do my lines for me. It'd be all in Russian, but other than that... Yeah. Welcome to me! You know, it'd be great. So, the insolvency sales, do they turn Henry's fortunes around? Does he clear his debts? No, no, no. So he's bankrupt? No, because, I mean, a lot of things sell for underpriced. You know, the amount that he got for that Pullman car, the morse, was derisory compared to how much it had cost.

48:46And then the man gave it back because it didn't do quite the mileage that he thought it would. Because there's lavender in the engine. Because there's lavender in the engine, yeah. So, no. And they calculated that if the Marquis lived till 1911, the debts would be paid off. But they weren't through the sales because of the income was, his annual income was going to pay off debts as well. But the sales didn't. And he doesn't live to 1911. The tragedy here is he dies in 1905, aged 29. Oh. It's really young. That is really young. It's such a young, it's extraordinarily young, but also it's just, it's so tragic, isn't it?

49:30Because this is clearly someone who's living his life to his fall. Oh, yeah, completely. It doesn't sound like someone that was done. No. It's 29. I didn't even know who I was at 29. I know, exactly. He'd never have a chance to have his 30-year, 30s midlife crisis. Can you imagine his 30th birthday? The bash. He'd had his life crisis when his income was reduced from£110 ,000 a year to£3 ,000. Ooh, ooh, ooh. OK, that's nice. And so he was reduced to, basically, I think he had one personal servant and the nanny for the little girl that he'd adopted. And basically, that was it. And his private secretary, of course.

50:09Okay. So what happened to the family then? What happened to the castle? What happened to all his stuff? You know, he's dead. His stuff is gone. Right. And the title is inherited by his cousin, who is, I think, 19 at this point, and is at Sandhurst, training to be a soldier. Okay, so a proper soldier. Yeah, I know, but he only... I think he did a year more. I think probably, you know. And there's plenty of stories about the sixth Marcus. Okay. So, yes, but the house was dismantled anyway. There's some very, very poignant descriptions of the empty house. They may or may not have destroyed all of his papers, but I myself, I think probably the papers had gone.

50:55But certainly the good story is that the sixth Marquis's mother walked in and destroyed everything that was left. So we have no personal papers. There's a journal turned up in 1906, which is of his last year and was reproduced in part in the newspapers, which is actually really poignant. But no, so there is a relic and he's the chapel, the theatre, which had been built into the chapel originally right back in the 1890s, was returned to a chapel and an occasional school room as is appropriate. at least that's the story okay so it's quite a life it's a sad end but what do you make of Henry Cyril Hedget?

51:45well I'm glad he just made the most of what he had to be honest and again like this extravagance it feels like it's a symptom of everything that this poor person was put through at least they had fun doing it and by the sounds of things they weren't not paying their tailors it didn't sound like they were a particularly nasty person or left much damage behind. They just lived their life authentically. They left a lot of damage behind. I think that. They left a lot of damage behind. But the very core servants lost their jobs, lost their homes. The people, particularly the locals, the local shopkeepers and things like that who didn't have vast resources, to be owed a smallish sum of money could mean bankruptcy for them, an end of their business.

52:37So there's this sort of very ambivalent feeling around his, is that, yes, he was genuinely, there's a genuine affection there for him, but the debts that he had accrued, and he sent this extraordinary telegram before the sales, when the estate manager wrote to him and said, please, could you send us a cheque for£3 ,000 because the servants and the local shopkeepers have not been paid for three months. And he sent a telegram back saying, please do not bother me with such trifles. Oh, okay. The Nuance Window!

53:20It's time now for The Nuance Window. This is where Morgan and I sit silently backstage bedazzling our costumes for two minutes while Professor Viv takes to the stage to tell us something we need to know about Henry Padgett, the fifth Marcus. So my stopwatch is ready. Okay. And take it away, Professor Gardner. Okay, right. So I'm interested in why people are so interested in him today, and why he's in some sense a hero to them. And my answer is sort of, we all need heroes. And maybe in the 21st century, we need a queer hero in every single sense of the word, someone who is an outsider and not the military hero who saved England at the Battle of Waterloo.

54:02And it helps if that hero is dead because we can then build our own fantasy around him. We can resurrect him in the image that we desire. And in the case of First Marquis, he was also persecuted because he was written out of history and that makes it all the better. His family repudiated him, society repudiated him. So when he rises again from the ashes in the 21st century, he becomes the sort of George Michael. People want him to be George Michael. They want him to be David Bowie, someone who was an outsider who lived his life as he wanted it and a performer. And for the LGBTQ community, he was gender fluid in an era that prosecuted and martyred Oscar Wilde, whose play, of course, The Marquess, did, and a period where Victorian binary notions, male and female, ruled.

54:58So he's radical in that sense. He stood in the hero category against his own class, but actually partly because they didn't want to have anything to do with him. And he brought joy and pleasure into the lives of ordinary people, the servants, the shopkeepers, the postmistresses. Also because he was Welsh, even if he wasn't Welsh. He was more Parisian than he was Welsh, especially North Wales. And it's North Wales that have really embraced him in, you know, for living and playing in North Wales, for making North Wales his utopia. And for learning Welsh, being there at the Aesthwad, spending all his money there, even if he actually didn't pay there.

55:46And it's an era of growing Welsh nationalism. So he all does this in the most gloriously fabulous way and all for free because he didn't charge people. And he also loved small dogs and we know that anybody who loves small dogs is a good thing. Except, I argue, that the reality was much, much more complex than that and not perhaps quite as altruistic as the term hero suggests. but actually I don't want to spoil anybody's fantasy. I want them to have their stories and their versions of his life because we all create heroes for ourselves and for our moment because we need them. Amazing, thank you so much.

56:27For me, what resonated with that amazing speech just then is that queerness in history, people talk about gender non-binary stuff or gender fluidity. I think there's a bit of discussion where people talk, oh, it's all new. It's like, it's not new at all. It's throughout history. You can look at it in different cultures. You can look at it in different races. You can look at it all over the world. It's there. And so I have this one, probably for me to go, oh, it's up the road. This person in North Wales was doing this 100 years ago. That's really affirming. So what do you know now?

57:11Well, it's time now for the So What Do You Know Now. This is our quickfire quiz for Morgan to see how much you've learned. Let's see how we get on. I've got ten questions for you, Morgan. Okay. I've got all my notes here. I didn't know this, that there was going to be a notes thing and a quiz because you've got to tell me not to look into the podcast. It's all right. And I'm so worried that I've not been really funny because I've been making notes. It's all right. You've been funny. And let's see if you've also been paying attention. We've got ten questions. Here we go. Question one. What was Henry's nickname?

57:41Oh, the Dancing Mark West. Yes, very good. I thought we were saying Marcus for ages. The Dancing Marcus. Question two. Henry spoke at least three languages besides English. Can you name two of them? Russian and French. Very good. And also better Welsh. Question three. Do you remember the name of Henry's wife? Oh, Lillian. It was Lillian. Well done. Yes. Yes, his cousin. Question four. What important remodelling did Henry make to Plast Neueth, which he renamed the castle when he was the Marquis? What did he add? Oh, didn't he add a theatre? He did. He built the Gaiety Theatre. Very good. What was Henry's most famous dance performance called?

58:24Oh, the butterfly. It was the butterfly dance. Question six. Which floral scent did Henry Paget supposedly use to perfume his car? Rumour that was that it was lavender. It was rumour. And you think patchouli, so one of those. Question seven. What was one of the sources of the Padgett family's wealth? Oh, it was coal. It was coal. Good old coal. Question eight. During the Great Anglesey sales, when he ran out of money, how were some of Henry's clothes displayed? Do you remember who modelled them? Oh, it was one of the servants, wasn't it? His personal servants? It was the auctioner's assistant called Jerry, yeah.

59:00I'll let you have that because I think that's true. Faithful Jerry. Faithful Jerry. Faithful Jerry. Question nine. Can you name two items that were sold off at the Great Anglesey sales? Oh, well, we had four cannons. We did. And we had a thousand self-portraits, didn't we? We had parrots, we had ice skates, we had mink coats, pianos, walking sticks, and cannons, of course. Question 10. I think this is for, I'm going to give you nine and a half out of ten if you get this, because you were pretty good with Gerry. How old was Henry when he died? Oh, he was 29. He was 29. Nine and a half out of ten.

59:30Well done. Really good. Excellent. You were paying attention and you were funny. So, you know, win-win. Thank you so much. Well done, Viv, as well. Thank you for sharing that with us. My pleasure. Fascinating life. I mean, he does feel joyous. He does feel beloved, but I understand that he left a lot of people in financial debt and that's not fun. But, you know, we like our flamboyant heroes. And listener, for more flamboyant performers from history, check out our episodes on Josephine Baker, Sarah Bernhardt or Sarah Bernard in French, and for more fabulous LGBTQ biographies, We've got a lovely episode on Philippe-Duc d 'Orléans, which is a good one too.

1:00:07If you've enjoyed the podcast, please subscribe to You're Dead to Me on BBC Sounds to hear the show 28 days earlier than anywhere else. And if you're outside the UK, you can listen at bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts. I'd just like to say a huge thank you to our guests in History Corner. We have the fantastic Professor Viv Gardner from the University of Manchester. Thank you, Viv. Well, thank you, Greg, for inviting me. It was a great pleasure to talk about it. Very fun, thank you. And in Comedy Corner, We have the marvellous Morgan Rees. Thank you, Morgan. Thank you so much for having me.

1:00:35It's been an absolute delight learning more about this gentleman than getting to meet you too. And to you, lovely listener, join me next time as we stage our own tableau vivant of another long-lost historical topic. But for now, I'm off to commission a spangly lilac football kit. It'll go perfectly with my purple underpants. Bye!

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1:02:03In 1872, the Marie Celeste was found adrift in the Atlantic. Every person on board was gone, and none of them were ever seen again. Every Monday on Hidden History, Dr Harini Bhatt takes an unexplained event from history, just like that one, reads the evidence like a case file, and tells you what she thinks happened. No hedging. Start with the Mary Celeste episode for a look at one of history's most enduring maritime enigmas. Follow Hidden History with Dr Harini Bhatt wherever you get your podcasts.